feedback for "The Ironic Thing II"

1. I think the CBC has all your numbers.  They had an article on www.cbc.ca a few days ago about hipster parenting that really resonated with me.  Babble and Pollack are made for one another.  Why should you fight?  You are all trying to make a buck off of a dubious trend.  You should support one another.  Solidarity in banality and self-indulgent whining.  So take your New Hampshire addresses and your Northwestern University degrees and shove it.
   
   Grow up.  You're the parents now.
   
   
   
   

   posted by : GetOffMyLawn on 1/30/2007 at 8:51 PM Flag For Abuse

2. After reading this rebuttal, I don't have much to add to my comment on the original article.  I will repeat that getting sushi and not paying has been done to death.  Whiny suburban punks are trite, even if they have wives with 36G bosoms and kids.  (Nice work getting that fact about Regina into your book, Pollack.)  I think Lisa made some accurate points, if not in the mellifluous prose that you're accustomed to mulling over while you sit around frying your brain and whacking yourself to internet porn.  You really are a masturbatory phenomenon in every sense.
   
   

   posted by : bogmonster on 1/30/2007 at 9:19 PM Flag For Abuse

3. Actually, Pollack is not from the suburbs, ya know? (central Philly, central Austin, central LA) And I believe that the 36G bosom was not supposed to be a good thing - it sounds awful. That's borderline-freakish, not sexy.

   
   

   Obviously many disagree on this book and this site. I wonder if Dave Barry was skewered like this.

   posted by : Momma on 1/30/2007 at 10:47 PM Flag For Abuse

4. I forgot central Chicago. I repeat, not suburban, thus the housing and school issues. You're just desperate to make him sound as lame as possible, aren't you bogmonster?

   
   

   And now I'll let him fight his own battles.

   posted by : Momma on 1/30/2007 at 10:50 PM Flag For Abuse

5. Momma, you should try reading the book.  He's from the rich suburbs of Phoenix.  You are only naming the places where he has chosen to lived after graduating from a fancy private college that Mommy & Daddy probably paid for.
   

   posted by : bogmonster on 1/31/2007 at 6:58 AM Flag For Abuse

6. Wow.... bitter much
   

   posted by : kidcult on 1/31/2007 at 10:32 AM Flag For Abuse

7. Bitter is my ironic. 

    

   Pollack is a deluded aging poseur.

   posted by : GetOffMyLawn on 1/31/2007 at 11:05 AM Flag For Abuse

8. bogmonster, what a snob you are! So now you're holding it against him where he grew up? Since then, he's lived in urban centers, and he's led a very middle-class life. Part of the book's appeal to me is the struggle it shows of Gen Xers trying to "do better" than their parents - or even to achieve the same life-style. That's not easily done in Bush's America. 

   posted by : Momma on 1/31/2007 at 1:31 PM Flag For Abuse

9. Momma, how am I a snob?  Does not compute.

    

   Pollack is the one who disses mothers who live in wealthy suburbs of Austin, making snide and jealous comments about them in his book.  Aren't they just trying to do better than their parents?  But of course they are non-people and worthy of our derision because they don't choose to sit around smoking pot in urban centers.  It's much easier to do as well as your parents if you don't cling to a teenager's lifestyle.  It doesn't matter who is in the White House. 

   posted by : bogmonster on 1/31/2007 at 2:22 PM Flag For Abuse

10. Alternative=Hip=urban=urbane=ironic=postmodern=judgmental= "above it all", almost by definition.   And yes, I'm simplifying things. But hasn't "tastemaking" and a lot of journalism been about all those things for decades now? Beatniks had kids. Hippies had kids. Neal had a kid (a risk in itself to his hipster reputation) and so did Carver and Ada (both of whom I admittedly know nothing about, as one of those new Babble accounts, here to see what's up with the debate). Neal's is a quirky personal vision, and yes he probably does reinforce certain stereotypes. So what? Snarkiness is not for the faint of heart, even in the era of The Simpsons. While magazines have the right to run a negative review, I also question motive in this case, like generating some "heat" for the sake of promoting Babble. If Carver or Babble were looking for another Erma Bombeck, they should have known going in that Neal ain't that guy, and shouldn't try to hold him to that standard of conventionality. It's a very personal statement, and opinions are bound to differ about both his writing style and the choices he describes. Irony may well be the main technique that my generation uses to hide, or to deflect serious issues. But there's a lot to hide from, and I suspect Pollack represents a large portion of the uncomfortable middle class who also grapple with what it takes to "grow up" nowadays.

    posted by : markingtime on 1/31/2007 at 4:10 PM Flag For Abuse

11.  I read Carver's article and thought it was rather unprofessional, given that it was primarily a personal attack.

     I have also read Pollack's account of his son's circumcision, and feel that Carver’s attack did not go nearly far enough. I hope I see this asshat in HEB some time so I can kick him where he allowed his child to undergo needless surgery without anesthesia, against the weeping protests of his wife.

    Regardless of Pollack’s geographic location and rhetorical posturing, he IS a whiny suburban punk—he caved in to every authority figure he encountered. Too bad he doesn't regard his wife as an authority. Chump-ass punk.

    posted by : Maureen on 1/31/2007 at 6:29 PM Flag For Abuse

12. Did somebody pee in Maureen's Cheerios?

     

    Great article, Neal. It's unfortunate that somebody held a gun to her head and made her read your book. And then those mean editors forced her to write about it! Hopefully she will seek therapy for her tragic experience and will be able to resume a normal, humorless, boring life.

    posted by : quirkeejames on 2/1/2007 at 9:09 AM Flag For Abuse

13. Meanwhile, were Erma or Dave ever skewered like this? Ahhh... the joy and pride of being part of such an under-read and cynical generation!
    
    I enjoyed Carver's piece AND Pollack's rebuttal.  I'm monkey in the middle again.
    
    
    
    

    posted by : CrankMama on 2/3/2007 at 2:28 PM Flag For Abuse

14. I like both of these writers a lot, but somehow, after reading both essays, I feel that while they attacked one another, they both sent the annoying "I'm so cool and smart" message to those of us actually reading the stuff. As a parent, I want  parent writers to make me laugh at the insanity of it all and to remind me that all parents have flaws and blind spots. You don't have to impress us; it just alienates your readers.
    

    posted by : Motherfester on 2/4/2007 at 9:47 PM Flag For Abuse

15. Pollack didn't write about "the terrors of circumcision," he wrote a passive-aggressive poutfest about how his mommy is mean to him. He didn't write about "the emotional consequences of seeing your kid get expelled from preschool," he complained for, what, 800-1100 words about how both he and his wife can't stand to spend time with their toddler. No wonder the kid bites. It's either that or beat both his parents to death with a DiaperGenie. God, I'm annoyed now. I *knew* when I clicked on his dumb article that I'd yet again be sent into a whirling maelstrom of a Pollo-phlactic allergic reaction. Why do I do this to myself?
    
    I want to have coffee with Maureen. Lots of it.
    
    

    posted by : madfoot on 2/7/2007 at 9:04 PM Flag For Abuse

16. I just had to say - to all of you complaining about Neal's "whining"  throughout the book - chill out.  It's a comedy.  What did you expect?  Have you ever heard of Neal Pollack before?  Did you really expect some straight forward tale of parenthood.  How boring would that have been?  For some reason it's hard for people to grasp that this book was actually a realistic account of parenthood today for many people.  You don't always want to spend every single second with your kid, even if you love them more than life itself.  Sometimes you need a break to be able to be the best parent you can be.  I wonder how many of the father's who've posted here spent as much time with their children as Neal has with Elijah.  Did yall even read this book?  As far as the comments about it not being dark enough,give me a break.  Sometimes things happen in life that suck, and I think there were certainly many moments like that in the book, Neal just dealt with those moments with humor.  To some people made the book really good. 

    posted by : MiasMom on 2/8/2007 at 11:06 PM Flag For Abuse

17. Circumcision is needless surgery? I haven't read the Pollack book, but I have read several medical studies showing that circumcision decreases by about 50% the chances of an affected male passing to a sexual partner both AIDS and HPV, the virus which causes cervical cancer in women, and which affects more than half of American females.  Is is needless to cut away a bit of flesh, if it tends to save the lives of women and men?
    

    posted by : tallulahelvis on 2/15/2007 at 9:25 PM Flag For Abuse

18. Actually, condoms are a 99% effective way to reduce transmission of just about all STDs, and pregnancy, circumcision or no. Which would make circumcision not medically necessary.
    
    And bogmonster, if you knew anything about having a baby, you'd know that ginormous boobage is pretty common, and not a lot of fun.
    

    posted by : smartygirl on 4/3/2007 at 6:29 PM Flag For Abuse