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I'd file this under 'good parent'. With a healthy moderate attitude like that, I'm pretty sure its safe to say your children wont end up binge drinking themeselves into a stupor in their teenage years, as many do who have been taught that alcohol is a 'forbidden no no' only to be chugged in mass quantities at the first unsupervised opportunity.
posted by : Combermere on 4/30/2008 at 7:20 PM Flag For Abuse
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Maybe Amy comes from a long line of alcoholics and the very idea of alcohol brings the painful memories of growing up in hell right to the forefront and she is terrified that one of her children may succumb to the demon. Just a thought. I'm all for teaching moderation and common sense exposure, but let's not forget that alcoholism leaves a tragic path of destruction and for many it invokes extremely painful memories and fear of inheriting "the disease".
posted by : Lisaloo on 4/30/2008 at 7:51 PM Flag For Abuse
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I, too, would file this under the "Good Parent" category. My parents took a similar approach when raising my sister and me. At dinner, they would often have a nice glass of wine to go with their meal and my sister and I would usually get a sip. That approach taught us, over the years, to appreciate a glass of fine wine and savor the flavor instead of chugging it down. As a result, neither my sister or I participated in binge-drinking at parties or elsewhere. Most of the time, when offered alcohol at high school parties, we'd decline because we did not feel the pressure to drink illicitly. Besides that, who wants to drink the awful drinks teens supply for parties? We both learned to drink responsibly and with an eye to taste. I'm so glad that Gretchen had the courage to post about this, especially in a country that is so judgemental about alcohol and children.
posted by : shapenotemama on 5/1/2008 at 8:08 AM Flag For Abuse
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Thanks for the comment lisaloo, as I was going to make that myself. If there is any bad parenting going on here, I'd say it was the author's inability to take into account the reasons for Amy's abstinence other than her sitting on one of the alcohol extremes.
posted by : anonamom on 5/1/2008 at 10:48 AM Flag For Abuse
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I agree with Gretchen! My parents -- especially my Dad -- were foodies and wine was a big part of my growing up. We didn't have a lot of money, but special occasions and the few vacations we took as a family were oriented around food and wine. We all knew how to hold wine glasses properly and have our few sips at an early age. I do the same with my children. It is different here in the US. When I was in Italy with my 11 yo daughter last year, the waiters always poured her a very small glass of wine -- often before I could ask them too. The only reason I might not let my kids sip from my nightly glass of wine is because it's so good I don't want to share it! While I agree that "Amy" may have her reasons for passing on the wine -- and they are indeed her own reasons and no one should judge her for them, she too needs not to be judgmental about those of us who do drink and who have different views on wine consumption for our families. My family tree is full of alcoholics -- defined in my opinion and mine alone as people for whom alcohol is a problem, and that one or two glasses of wine is not where they stop. One of them lived with us, in fact. I think my parents were smart to remove the mystery of alcohol and to show us that not drinking to excess is not the norm.
posted by : MLC on 5/1/2008 at 11:04 AM Flag For Abuse
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Oops! That last sentence should read -- that drinking to excess is not the norm.
posted by : MLC on 5/1/2008 at 11:07 AM Flag For Abuse
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I totally agree with the writers take on this.
posted by : chattydaddy on 5/1/2008 at 1:06 PM Flag For Abuse
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My parents are children of alcoholics and they're extremely anti-drinking. I'm not. But if I had to live through what they lived through growing up, I probably wouldn't want alcohol in my house either.
posted by : ccoa on 5/1/2008 at 1:25 PM Flag For Abuse
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Where's the controversy? Subtitling this piece "Why I Let My Kids Drink" is completely misrepresentative. It would be like writing a piece subtitled "Why I Let My Kids Use Drugs" only to read further to find out that I give my kids Tylenol when they're sick.
From the way this piece is written, it sounds like you're far more judgmental of your friend's decision not to drink than she is of yours to allow your kids to taste. If you don't want to be judged for your decisions regarding alcohol, don't be so quick to judge others.
posted by : Cobbler on 5/1/2008 at 1:36 PM Flag For Abuse
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I have no objection to how the author raises her kids. But I do think it's crossing the line when she offered a sip to the guest's son AFTER the mom said it wasn't OK. That's obnoxious. To the friend, clearly alcohol is associated with some kind of fear or pain... it's insensitive to try to override that by "playing the good hostess." A good hostess takes cues from her guests.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 5/1/2008 at 2:11 PM Flag For Abuse
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Agreeing with everyone else so far on both the reasonableness of allowing an occasional sip and also on the need to not push your own attitudes onto others.
One of my husband's schoolmates (my husband went to public school in the US) was Belgian and brought watered wine to drink with lunch. Imagine if a public school kid did that today!
posted by : CaliMama on 5/1/2008 at 3:14 PM Flag For Abuse
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I can attest that Gretchen's method is effective, having raised two children who were allowed to drink small amounts of wine with dinner or to toast New Years' Eve with a little champagne. As teens they didn't ever drink and drive or hang out with friends who drank much. As adults they are light drinkers, in spite of having alcoholics on both sides of their family.
I consider this to be a helpful, well-thought-out article. I'm not worried about Gretchen offering her friend's son a taste, since his mother is there to approve (or not). Some of the writers here are doing a lot of mind-reading when they claim Gretchen is judging or that her friend associates alcohol with some kind of fear or pain. There are many reasons people choose not to drink, and not all of them would fall in those categories. Some people would rather consume their calories as food and prefer to follow the letter of the law regarding legal drinking age—it can be that simple.
I've spent time in Europe, where I first learned the pleasures of leisurely dining accompanied by fine wine. What a lovely experience to pass on to one's children! Thanks for the lovely, eloquent article.
posted by : oldermom on 5/1/2008 at 3:16 PM Flag For Abuse
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I have to agree, the subtitle is ridiculous. Sounds like you're throwing parties for your kids, not something as inane as letting your children have the occassional sip at dinner. I would hope that perhaps some sensitivity would be shown to your dinner guest, perhaps ask her why she's uncomfortable, does she really just not like it? Then fine, but I would bet there is something more. My husband and I no longer drink - we have watched the devastating path of alcoholism rage through friends and family and trust me, the sadness of watching this far outweighs how good a glass of wine with dinner tastes - all you can taste is bitter when you've lost loved ones to a beverage. We are open about our choice, doesn't bother us if others drink and when it comes time to teach our daughter about alcohol I am hopeful we will present all sides of this issue appropriately by simply explaining its no longer a desert we enjoy.
posted by : akendall on 5/1/2008 at 3:17 PM Flag For Abuse
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I am not anti alchol by any means...but giving your 5 year old sips of wine? I am not even religious but it is just wrong in my opinion. I remeber my Dad giving us kids sips of beer...I think it was wrong of him..I have seen my nephew given sips of beer. Not something I would do with my kids. My son is 3 1/2 and it is very clear that "booze" is a mommy daddy drink. Luckily he has not interest in having a taste, but I would be so pissed if someone gave him or my daughter a drink. I only need one glass of wine to get a buzz..I imagine my son's 30lbs would give him a buzz from one sip. Sorry folks...I put this under bad parenting. Maybe you should start giving your daughter a hit off the old pipe or a drag from your cigg.
posted by : carlie on 5/1/2008 at 3:30 PM Flag For Abuse
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Exactly, Carlie. What's next? A "taste" of a cigarette? Alcohol is a drug, not a food. Wine came from grapes, right? Well, tobacco came from a plant, too, and so did marijuana, and cocaine for that matter.
posted by : AnotherBibleBeltMommy on 5/1/2008 at 3:44 PM Flag For Abuse
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Why do people think that Amy (the author's friend) has some deep-seated issues about alcohol? It's perfectly normal to refuse your child alcohol. Perfectly legal, too.
posted by : amy_o on 5/1/2008 at 3:48 PM Flag For Abuse
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Could anything be a more boring and pretentious hobby than wine? Having lived in the San Francisco Bay Area for a good part of my life I've grown so tired of pretentious yuppies with too much time on their hands going on and on about their wine cellars and vintages and how they wish we could all be more like the Europeans.
Sure, the Europeans are definitely more practical and less moralstic about some things. But the whole Europhilia thing gets tired.
5 is probably a bit young for straight wine. Europeans generally give kids a mixture of mostly water and just a drop of wine. And I don't know how young they start.
I don't really have a moral problem with a sip of watered down wine to a kid who is old enough (say, maybe 10).
But that's beside my point. The main point is that this is another example of Babble.com taking a fairly mundane article with a very middle-ground position (at least middle-ground for this target audience of Europhiles), slapping a sensational headline ("Why I Let My Kids Drink"), caption ("European vs American Parents") and image (Glass of wine and an infant) on it and trying to stir up a debate that's really not there.
posted by : Eyes Rolling on 5/1/2008 at 3:54 PM Flag For Abuse
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A marvelously sane article. Thank you.
posted by : ljwilliamson on 5/1/2008 at 5:49 PM Flag For Abuse
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Thanks for the great article. It is my plan to do exactly the same with my children by showing them the healthy way to consume alcohol. I am happy to know that I am not the only one.
posted by : candpsma on 5/1/2008 at 6:31 PM Flag For Abuse
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Raised in a family that followed Gretchen's method, I learned at 3 or 4 that I preferred "plain" wine to the reds - a sense that's followed me into my post-21 life. At 16, I wasn't a binge drinker. I drank with my friends on occasion, but as alcohol wasn't the taboo it is in so many households, it didn't provide a thrill to drink. I was the rare teen who was responsible with my liquor! Which is why my daughter will have a taste of this, a sip of that! Thanks for the great article, and here's to "bad parenting!"
posted by : jeanne on 5/1/2008 at 8:12 PM Flag For Abuse
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I along with many other fellow recovering alcoholics remember that first sip. I was magically transformed with just one sip of champagne, that made me elated for the entirety of the night and eager for the next night I could have one again. In fact, I snubbed the common cheap beers and boxes of wine at parties later in college, and preferred a nice glass of pinot noir, and occasionally port. However, just because I started with a foodie's appreciation for alcohol in moderation, and in fact educated others professionally, I could not stop.... until I was almost 30 and woke up from a blackout behind airbags. However, I don't believe I am an alcoholic because of how young I did or didn't drink, or what I chose to drink. Believe me, I still yearn to be someone having one glass of wine at the table.
I support everyone's preferences to raising their children, and I plan on teaching my children about alcohol from a very middle of the road standpoint. I can't assume that just because their mother is an alcoholic, that they will be too and do believe in being honest and open. But, knowledge begets nothing when alcoholism is involved and you never know which child will end up chasing that first sip for the rest of their lives. I believe in sharing alcohol only once they are old enough to know the difference between the good feelings and bad feelings that alcohol can bring to different people with different genetics and metabolisms.
posted by : mimsyb on 5/1/2008 at 9:49 PM Flag For Abuse
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My concern after reading this article is not that the children are too young to drink, but the way in which drinking is not only allowed but celebrated. Yes, in Europe kids drink. My step dad who was raised Italian didn't think twice about offering us a sip or when we got older a glass of wine or champaign. He also told us that he was given a small glass of wine with meals as a child. In this article however, the author seems to have gone beyond that with her own children. Celebrating, encouraging and appreicating alcohol at the tender age of 5, is not ok. With many addictions, they start because the activity was something the child and parent did together and enjoyed. Drinking alcohol or eating food or shopping bring back good memories for the child turned adult and when times are rough they consume and often over consume in order to "feel better". I think the author is walking a fine line of setting up her child for an addiction, she may even have one of her own if she is enjoying alcohol with food every night and using health statistics as an excuse. Creating an evironment where drinking alcohol is normal and there is no need for later experimentation is different then encouraging (maybe even pressuring) children and teens to take on an adult activity before they are ready and so they fit in with their parents life style.
posted by : dhsredhead on 5/1/2008 at 10:31 PM Flag For Abuse
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My feelings on this article are somewhat mixed. My initial reaction is to concur with the author, but there is actually a lot of alcohol related research out there and I'm not sure that it entirely supports the author's views.
Research does indicate that drinking at earlier ages is a predictor of alcohol use later in life. Parental attitudes towards alcohol can also be predictors of alcohol use, but the correlation is usually strongest with children of alcoholics. There is some genetic predispotion to alcoholism and these children have the double whamy of also having parents who model excessive behavior. However, there is nothing in this article that remotely indicates the author has an addiction. Despite the previous poster having said "she may even have one of her own if she is enjoying alcohol with food every night and using health statistics as an excuse," there is actually a clinically definition for alcohol addiction, and neither having a glass of wine with dinner each night nor any of the other behaviors the author described fits under the category of addiction. Certainly, if her children end up modeling parental behavior, they'll turn out just fine. A much better predictor of alcohol problems than parental attitudes or behaviors associated with underage drinking is peer behavior and peer modeling. There is also some research indicating that individuals are more likely to experiment in late adolescence then they are in early adulthood and that those who do experiment in early adolescence are more likely to develop addiction later in life. There is also some reason to believe this may be due to development in the prefrontal cortex that goes on at this life stage.
I do think this was a very well written article and gave me a lot of food for thought. I'm not sure what I'll decide for my child (my son is 19 months), but I'll give it careful consideration.
posted by : Camille on 5/2/2008 at 1:58 AM Flag For Abuse
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Cigarettes the same as wine? Cocaine and marijuana the same as wine? Oh, wait! That was a comment by "BibleBeltMommy." I can relax and save my breath.
Please.
The article was great "food" for thought. Parenting requires great thought, honesty and clarity. How else are we not going to be swept up in needless commotion and hysteria? I think the writer made some great points.
posted by : DecafPlease on 5/2/2008 at 7:59 AM Flag For Abuse
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I thought alcohol, even in small amounts, damages a childs' developing liver and internal organs. Isn't that why they dont put alcohol in children's cough an dcold meds? Just because one culture does something regularly does not make it okay. Jeez, some cultures saw off the genitals of little girls with shrads of glass. Kudos to Amy_O. Wine hobbyist are boring. It is just a drink that costs a lot. It all turns to vinegar eventually. Wine snobberyreminds me of "The Emperors' New Clothes". If you cant detect that subtle hint of lavender or the bouquet of peat then you must not be as educated or sensitive as a TRUE wine lover. Silly and a waste of time. I also think the word "foodie" should be outlawed. My hobby is food and wine = look how dull and pretentious I am.
posted by : cassie on 5/2/2008 at 10:20 AM Flag For Abuse
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Some people have far too much time on their hands - I did say "it's just a thought" when I suggested that Amy's aversion to alcohol might be related to painful childhood experiences. Merely trying to give another side to a loaded subject just as Gretchen gave her reasons why she is all for experiential learning. Everyone has a story and I don't presume to know Amy's, but all you have to do is watch the evening news to see the devastation of alcohol - I was raised the same way Gretchen advocates and I took the mystery out of wine and beer by allowing my little guy a sip - one taste and he wrinkled his nose and said "yuck". Each to their own, but everyone has a story and I think we need to respect that.
posted by : Lisaloo on 5/2/2008 at 2:29 PM Flag For Abuse
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What a fun and smartly written piece. I really enjoyed it. Gretchen, well-done.
posted by : MonBh on 5/2/2008 at 3:00 PM Flag For Abuse
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OK so maybe it was a leap to say the guest had fear/pain associations with alcohol, but the author didn't help with her description of Amy's reaction to the wine. And it's still obnoxious to try to override a parent's "NO" to their kid. Totally disrespectful.
posted by : BBBGMOM on 5/2/2008 at 4:50 PM Flag For Abuse
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I think Gretchen's points are very valid and I appreciate her essay's message. Too much emphasis is put on the evils of alcohol. When it's incorporated as a normal part of a child's life, the mysteries and curiosity aren't there as much later in life.
Great job, Gretchen!
posted by : writermomof4 on 5/2/2008 at 11:16 PM Flag For Abuse
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I thought this was a well-written piece that obviously achieved its goal since we're all taking sides.
I'm also a wine professional,have lived in Europe, and grew up tasting my parents wine and beer. Somewhere around 10, I started to like certain wines, and would be given a small glass of it with dinner on special occastions. In high school I skipped the cheap beer at parties since I found it to taste horrible and just had a soda. My friends called me when they needed a safe ride home after consuming too much.
I didn't turn into an alcoholic after a sip, and to this day almost always put the cork in it after one glass. (I spit when tasting on the job.) But I don't doubt that some people with addictive personalites could become an alcoholic if drinking it regularly. One sip is too extreme.
And just like families in the US, it's not right to say that "European families always do this." The customs and traditions vary drastically from one family to another. And don't forget that we're talking about dozens of different countries!
My friends in France gave their 4 and 5 years old glasses of half water and half wine, but only on special occasions. Another family forbade it to their children until they turned 13. In Italy, some families I've dined with gave their kids a glass every night when they turned 6. Others only when they asked. Celebrate the differences, folks.
posted by : tonik122 on 5/3/2008 at 11:58 AM Flag For Abuse
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My parents had a relaxed attitude towards alcohol. Apparently I liked to go around family parties finishing of the dregs in left-over glasses! We laugh about it to this day.
I remember when I was 5 and my uncle gave me a puff on his cigar. I hated it and have never felt the need to smoke since.
I believe my parents relaxed attitude gave my sister and myself nothing to rebel against. On the whole we were pretty good kids.
Moderation is key... or maybe I was lucky enough to not have an addictive personality.
posted by : kiwi mum on 5/5/2008 at 10:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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To appreciate wine you don't need to start drinking at 5!!
posted by : Alex74 on 5/6/2008 at 2:00 PM Flag For Abuse
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European families... like they are the example to follow, where else but in Spaniar beaches, you have to check for needles before putting your towel in the sand?? I went to an European school and I have never seen people that consume so many drugs and alcohol...
posted by : AsBs on 5/6/2008 at 2:05 PM Flag For Abuse
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Another thought... I am profoundly allergic to sulfides found in wine. I am polite and always decline any wine because I don't have a strong urge to visit the hospital.
But there are some people who just cannot believe that I would ever refuse a glass of wine. And so they ask again. I don't feel I need to explain my sulfide allergy, so I don't most times.
posted by : allergies on 5/15/2008 at 9:59 PM Flag For Abuse
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I am a very moderate drinker. I like a glass of wine, or a hard cider. When I was a kid my parents would give me a sip of their wine or even a teaspoon of their strawberry daquiri. I didn't really drink socially until I was 21. That's right, no alchohol at all in high school. It wasn't interesting, and kids would drank all time were boring. If my kid asks for sip, they can have it. But then again I don't think alchohol is evil, in moderation. I guess that's just a basic attitude difference, based on religious or dietary beliefs. For some alchohol is sinful, or flatly unhealthy, and others don't feel that way. Everyone can back up their beliefs with argument or proof, whether scientific, cultural or anecdotal.
posted by : mchaos on 1/14/2009 at 5:51 PM Flag For Abuse
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I think the author was merely trying to use her friend as a means to get her point across, not judging her lifestyle or choices. And I think she was just gently trying to ler her friend know it would be okay to let the son sample the wine, IF she chose to let him. I doubt she was trying to force her opinion on her.
posted by : locke on 3/9/2009 at 10:14 PM Flag For Abuse
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You seriously need to have your kids taken away. Or did you forget that in the US the LAW is only 21 years and older may drink alcohol?
posted by : LAPD on 7/2/2009 at 3:42 AM Flag For Abuse
