feedback for "Non-Breeder: Puppy Power"

1. If you think a dog is anything like a baby you will be severely disappointed when you actually have a child. Take all the negative stuff that cramped your style and times is by a thousand and you are somewhat closer to what the actual experience is like. Why does Babble print crap like this?
   

   posted by : spartic99 on 1/17/2008 at 12:27 PM Flag For Abuse

2. We have a greyhound dog - an ex-racer.  He's a great dog and a perpetual 3 year old.  He is bullyish with other dogs, he gets into scuffles and I have to scold him, he gets shy and tries to hide from nice people, he will only approach some people if they have something he wants - like pizza, etc.
    
   I think it is good training for parent hood overall - at least dealing with a child from a younger age maybe up 4 or 5, or so.
    
   Other than that, I don't really understand what this entry has to do with being parent to a child, advice or general information. 
    
   Seems to be the musings of a Williamsburg stylelite - of the kind my girlfriend and I fled from as Brooklyn continued to "sell out".
    
    Ex-Brooklynite

   posted by : ToysNYC on 1/17/2008 at 1:50 PM Flag For Abuse

3. spartic99...so right. Having a dog, even a puppy is no real training for having a kid. And if you're already doing the woman=cuddles & man=disciple split, it's not going to change with the kid. Believe me.  Face it, you want to be the nurturer  so you will be. With the dog and with any future child you have. Get over that guilt and enjoy life.
   
   
    
   dog - can stay home for 12  hours straight alone
   baby - have to tote to daycare or you change a diaper every 2-3 hours
   
   
    
   dog - feed 2-3 times a day...in a bowl, on the floor
   baby - breastfeed for 6-12 months (or more!) every 3-4 hours or make stinky formula bottles all day long
   
   
    
   dog - can't take them to cute hip cafe (but if you do, some will smile others will call the inspectors)
   baby - can take them to cute hip cafe (but if you do, some will smile, others will give you "THE LOOK")
   
   
    
   dog - licks your face  - we read this as love, I think it is.
   baby - smiles, coos, laughs, follows you around - this is love
   
   
    
   
   
   
   

   posted by : had baby before dog on 1/17/2008 at 2:03 PM Flag For Abuse

4. babble prints this crap to elicit eye-rolling reactions and get page views.  it's completely calculated to piss off a lot of people by sounding utterly superficial, immature, cliched and oblivious.  because that's their target audience.  people who are immature, self-consciously "hipster" 30-somethings who secretly feel guilty for still wanting to live like a teenager and so live in denial in the form of irony and snarkiness.  people who feel guilty for smoking pot while caring for their children; buying expensive, organic-cotton, designer apparel that will last 3 months; buying a dog instead of a child; acknowledging that a biological clock is a real thing, not a construct created by the patriarchy;  not breast-feeding because their boobies are for sex only!, etc., etc.
   
   
   is it no surprise that half of the content on babble is about people feeling guilty about some empty, bobo pleasure?
    
   it's neo-sensationalism in the age of irony.  it's a reflection of our self-absorbed, navel-gazing, liberal-elite guilt.
    
   but here i am.  reading it anyway. i guess i'm one of them.... :)
    
    
    
    

   posted by : k1 on 1/17/2008 at 2:12 PM Flag For Abuse

5. GO JESSICA! My hero.
    
   You're stronger than this, but what the hell, I'll say it anyway because....sometimes, it's damn nice to hear: You are not self-absorbed. You are self-aware. You are "practicing", making healthy choices, and not immediately getting yourself knocked up because it seems like the "right thing to do". You are working things out for yourself before you decide to ruin some kid's life based on your own mistakes.
   
   
    
   Jessica Valenti is a fabulous human and a real woman. Her work has meant everything to thousands of people just like me, so before you pull the "new age narcissism" card, you should take a look around you.
   
   

   posted by : HurricaneJessiee on 1/17/2008 at 3:07 PM Flag For Abuse

6. Wow, HurricaneJessiee is blowing hard today.  Sounds like you are an intimate of the author - good for you, you are an adept cheerleader.
    
   We got a dog first and when said dog came down with a mystery ailment that required a trip to the emergency vet, my father quipped it was good practice for running to urgent care w/ a feverish small human.  Yet, we didn't see the dog as "practice."  We both wanted a dog very badly and were not quite ready for a baby.  Our relative success in raising a puppy had nothing to do with our confidence (or lack) in our ability to raise a human.
    
   Other than being able to maintain good humor while handling another being's excrement, remembering to feed another being and not being able to go away for the weekend without making some phone calls for back-up, there's not a lot that's comparable. 
    
   Good luck.

   posted by : BBBGMOM on 1/17/2008 at 3:33 PM Flag For Abuse

7. The "starter baby" concept has been a big bummer for some of the dogs we know.  First the dog get showered with affection, walks, pricey trainers, and cute presents.  Then the owners "graduate" to a human baby and the dog is forgotten, or even given away.  Dogs aren't baby substitutes or placeholders.  They're your dogs.

   posted by : BabyAndDogMama on 1/17/2008 at 5:08 PM Flag For Abuse

8. Wow... I seem to remember my parents being much happier people when I was growing up.  You guys seem so angry just because -- what?  Jessica is young and happy and content with a dog for now?  That's something to mock in your world?  I really feel bad for you if having kids makes you this unhappy.
    
   Seriously, ligthen up, people.  If you bothered to actually read the column you'd see she isn't claiming that raising a dog is anything like raising a child.  You would have to be an idiot to think it is, and you would have to be an idiot to think that's what Jessica was saying.
    
   (Also, to the dude who wrote that you can leave a dog alone for 12 hours.  Stay the fuck away from my dog, you heartless bastard.  In what world is neglect okay, whether neglect of a dog OR a baby?  It's hilarious how you think you can read a baby's mind any better than you can read a dog's, too.)
    
   The piece was cute, light-hearted fare, obviously not meant to be taken as Jessica's Guide To Life, Straight From The Lips Of God.  If having kids has made you forget how to enjoy that... well, my dog and I pity you.

   posted by : Young happy dog mommy on 1/17/2008 at 8:18 PM Flag For Abuse

9. Why would you hire this idiot to write an article for you? She sounds like a clueless flake, and is oh so classy with the constant cursing and drug references. Yeah, um, I don't care what she has to say. This article is not well-written. I've read her blog, while most of the posts are interesting, relevant feminist news items, none of them are funny or well-written, though they claim their site is supposed to be funny. It's not. It's just annoying and I wish  Jessica Valenti would shut the fuck up already.
   
   
   
   

   posted by : mcperson6 on 1/17/2008 at 9:14 PM Flag For Abuse

10. By the way, "Young happy dog mommy": you are obviously Jessica Valenti in a thinly veiled attempt at saving your dignity. Self-obsessed and vain much?
    

    posted by : mcperson6 on 1/17/2008 at 9:16 PM Flag For Abuse

11. Sorry mcperson6, I don't suckpuppet.
    
    
     
    But thanks to others for the ratings and feedback--it's always really interesting to write something outside of my usual feminist stuff and see how people react to it.  (Especially when I'm writing something a bit lighter and fun!)  I'm looking forward to writing more for Babble.  Though, perhaps, not any more about dogs. ;)
    
    

    posted by : Jessica Valenti on 1/18/2008 at 12:14 AM Flag For Abuse

12. Wow - lighten up people!  I had my first dog post-college with college live in boyfriend - really it was his dog and I was along for the bumpy ride.  Dog was alpha, I was inexperienced - bad results.  Second dog with husband was a much better experience due to the book, "The Perfect Puppy" which tipped me off to a lot of dog behavior that differs from humans, and my now 8-year old golden was great practice for parenting our now 4-year old son.
    
    
    I'm not so full of myself and my awesome ability to procreate a real human being that I can't see the obvious paralells between the consistency of potty training a puppy, teaching him not to chew on furniture and shoes, walking, feeding, getting shots, etc.  And I have often commented that if people don't have the patience for a dog, they'd better not consider a child.  It's also a good indication of one's maternal instincts if they can love and manage a high-energy charge such as a canine.
    
    
    Is it about 1% the responsibilities and joys of a real kid? Of course it is.  But really, get over yourselves...  Isn't Babble all about silly self-deprecating navel gazing on parenting?  Are you all so very caught up in the specialness of your parenting that you can't let someone have a little fun?  Parenting is supposed to be fun, along with the work, so have some...  And cut Jessica some slack for God's sake...

    posted by : Allison on 1/18/2008 at 1:48 AM Flag For Abuse

13. Young Happy Dog Mommy summed it up pretty nicely, but I'm gonna say what I've said to friends / family since having both a baby and a puppy: my daughter was easier than my puppy. Period.
    
    
     
    Puppies have to be let out ever 4 hours. They can't go shopping with you. You don't have insurance (without paying out of pocket for it) if they get sick, or if the food is making them upset. Puppy day care is as expensive, if not more than baby daycare. You can't take a day off work because your puppy needs the attention. Need to go to the store? Can't take the puppy with you. Want to go to your friends for a chat? Better plan around the puppy time. Eventually the kid will talk back to you and tell you what it is she's whining about- the puppy? It'll always be your best guess. Puppies walk and get into stuff from day ONE- babies? Sit where you put 'em for at least 3 months. You dog isn't ever going to learn to clean up after itself, or how not to shed all over the damn place, or how to eat neatly and wipe their paws.
    
    
     
    What exactly is it that is so hard about having a baby? What exactly is SO SPECIAL about procreating that is getting parents all in a twist when you compare the urge to have a baby to the urge to own a dog? My daughter is of course one of the most important people in my life (with my partner)- she's brilliant, amazing, awe inspiring and the best thing I've ever done in. But it ain't rocket science, getting her fed and dressed in the morning and making sure she's spending enough time stimulating that big brain of hers. When did it become such an *achievement* to have a kid?  And I did it all- the breastfeeding, the emergency c-section; hell, my daughter broke her leg on the stairs when she was 13 months old, so I know the drill with kids. It's good work, it's hard work, but there are people making millions of dollars off of the idea that this parent thing is SO incredibly special and difficult that we've completely lost perspective here. And a sense of humor, apparently, since you couldn't POSSIBLY quell the bio-tick with a furry baby instead of a real one and not be tongue-in-cheek about it.
    
    
    
    
    The patience you learn with pets helps with the patience you'll need for your kids. The non-verbal communication is great practice for your newborn. If you don't feel like seeing your dog as "practice" well fine, if you want to elevate every experience in your life beyond "prepping for other stuff, " go nuts. Fact is, when I got the urge to procreate and KNEW it wasn't the right time, my puppy worked out pretty nicely. You can still "baby" your dog and treat it like a dog.
    

    posted by : lilianna28 on 1/18/2008 at 12:11 PM Flag For Abuse

14. It's clear from the piece that Jessica isn't implying that having a dog is the same as having a baby but is instead just talking in a half-taking-the-piss-out-of-herself-way about people who have dogs and baby them, "starter-baby" as she calls it.
     
    And I can completely emphasize with what she's saying. In a way the article makes you think about the idea of parenting in other senses of the word, away from parenting a child. Who cares if it's not completely serious or addressing parenting in a parent-child sense? It's meant to be a light-hearted piece but I disagree with those who are questioning it's suitability for this site - if this is a site for a new generation of parents then why all the bitching at those who fail to meet your requirements of a "suitable post"?
    
    
     
    I liked the piece, it made me smile (and reminded me of how I am with my cat, yes, feminist indeed).
    The responses, however, made me wonder whether I would think twice about submitting an article to the site. And the comment from the person who said that dogs could be left alone for 12 hours merely scared the crap out of me.
    
    

    posted by : femmediumdotblogspotdotcom on 1/18/2008 at 2:51 PM Flag For Abuse

15. We have a dog. We love our dog. We don't have kids. Our dog is not our kid, nor is it a substitute for one. It really grosses me out when we go to the vet and they say, "Oh, are you Spot's mom?" No, no I'm not. Spot's our buddy.
    

    posted by : Jonesy on 1/18/2008 at 3:46 PM Flag For Abuse

16. I still think Jessica Valenti is an idiot. And what's with the picture of her? Glaring at the camera with hunched linebacker shoulders? What statement is that trying to make? That she's a cold hard bitch and we shouldn't fuck with her of her "starter baby?" Damn I wish this woman would disappear.
    

    posted by : mamacita61 on 1/18/2008 at 11:24 PM Flag For Abuse

17. Good job mamacita61!  Way to decide you don't like someone because of something they wrote and then tear their physical appearance (which has nothing at all to do with what they wrote) to shreds.  Awesome thing to do, it's not like women get torn apart enough by men, why don't you just pile on!
    

    posted by : anon on 1/19/2008 at 9:32 AM Flag For Abuse

18. You're welcome, anon, it was all for you.
    

    posted by : mamacita61 on 1/19/2008 at 1:46 PM Flag For Abuse

19. This site has the angriest comments I've ever seen, and, frankly, my dears, nobody cares what Brooklyn used to be like. The world is a big place and there are plenty of neighborhoods in new york--find one that you can afford and enjoy in the present moment. Jessica did a noble thing by adopting her dog--let's give her some credit for taking responsibility for a creature that needs her care, love and companionship. Who cares how she rationalizes her affection for her dog. In my book, giving to animals and people is always laudable.
    

    posted by : colleenewelsh on 1/20/2008 at 11:49 AM Flag For Abuse

20. We had dogs and a cat that satisfied our urge to have someone to love and care for while we were young and not ready for children. They are a lot of work. Now we have a child, and while our poor pets are a bit more neglected than they were before the baby, we still love and care for them and find as much time as we can to spend with them. And in the case of one of our dogs, he totally adores the baby and seems glad we had him. I get really annoyed with childfree people who equate the time and energy (and even, gasp, love) you have to spend on a pet with that of a child, and I'm somebody who drove her guinea pig three hours each way to have MRI's done on him in a futile effort to save his life, damn the cost. But Jessica was pretty clear that the degree of difficulty with a child was much higher, so why the hate? And Jessica, if you're curious about the whole standard gender role thing, I'd read the section in Naomi Wolf's book Misconceptions about that (if you haven't already). My husband and I struggled with this a lot in the beginning, especially since with breast feeding the baby literally needed me all the time and the effort wasn't the same. I'd like to think we're doing a lot better as he gets older at practicing non-gender based parenting and playing to our individual strengths. It does take effort and some "gentle" reminders on both of our parts occasionally.  

    posted by : mcglory13 on 1/22/2008 at 4:07 PM Flag For Abuse

21. We got a dog about half a year before I got pregnant. I knew I wanted a dog, and I figured that way we could get all the basic training done before we had a baby as well. I will always think my family incomplete without a dog. I'm sure you're a great dog-owner, but I don't like it when people call them starter-babies. Because often when they get a read baby, they get rid of the dog. Pretty sad if the dog is then elderly. There is nothing sadder than an old dog whose family no longer loves them.

    posted by : mchaos on 1/17/2009 at 7:51 PM Flag For Abuse