feedback for "Dispatch: Freedom of Expression"

1. An interesting examination...I am definitely pro-breastfeeding, public or anywhere, but am wary of legislating everything. The author raises good points about potential problems with some of these laws.
   

   posted by : GP on 5/18/2009 at 2:24 PM Flag For Abuse

2. I'm not sure why churches are being singled out here.   I'm not religious and don't attend any churches.  However, it is my understanding that in some churches women are required to cover their heads.  Why would it be shocking that some would also require breast-feeding mothers take their child into a private room?  When you join a church, you agree to their individual rules.
   

   posted by : Marj on 5/18/2009 at 3:04 PM Flag For Abuse

3. What I completely fail to understand is why American women don't stand up en masse and demand the one thing that would genuinely impact their ability to breastfeed: decent maternity leave!  These laws, whether good or bad, are sort of beside the point; establishing a good breastfeeding relationship when you only get 6 weeks of maternity leave requires a Heculean effort that many women can't manage.
   

   posted by : EmRoo on 5/18/2009 at 8:49 PM Flag For Abuse

4. 'm not religious, either, but this got me thinking about breast-feeding and religion.  I've traveled quite a bit in Asia, and, of course, seen lots of women breast-feeding their kids in public. One particular woman stands out in my mind. It was in a train station in Malaysia, and she was a probably 20-something woman dressed as most women her age there were-- jeans, long-sleeved T-shirt, head covered. She had her shirt hiked up, showing belly and one breast, and was feeding her baby, while standing in line and chatting with a man who was about her age. Nobody but 20-something, childless, Christian, middle-class American me seemed to be paying any attention whatsoever. To me, though, this was a very odd sight. Breast-feeding in public? Without embarrassment? Covering her head but showing her breast? Weird! On later reflection, of course, I've come to realize that it's the American discomfort with breast-feeding that is absolutely bizarre. How could public baby-care be anything but normal? And what religion would discourage it?
   
   Incidentally, if that woman had been in the US, behaving exactly the same way, it's likely she would have been hassled by strangers not only for feeding her baby, but also for dressing as her religion encourages her to do-- I've heard more than one Muslim woman living in the US report that headscarves get them hostile comments on a pretty regular basis.
   

   posted by : rca on 5/18/2009 at 9:01 PM Flag For Abuse

5. I don't agree with this at all and the anti-breastfeeding tone that is reflected only shows where this is coming from. As a breastfeeding mom, I feel we need this kind of legislation in place so that when businesses attempt to discriminate against a breastfeeding mother, whether for breastfeeding in public or pumping at work that those businesses are punished for violating women's rights. It is easy to claim that women don't need such protections, I have no doubt you could use the same argument as to why we don't need equal pay legislation; after all women's income have been steadily increasing without any legislation. We've followed that for the past three centuries and women still make on average 25% less then men in their same positions. Even though these legislative measures don't go far enough that does not mean they shouldn't exist period. 
   

   posted by : Brooke Johnson on 5/18/2009 at 9:09 PM Flag For Abuse

6. I don't think the author is against breastfeeding at all - just laws that interfere with people and how they breast feed. Keep the government out of it and it will probably go better for all of us.
   

   posted by : bib on 5/18/2009 at 10:50 PM Flag For Abuse

7. I'm religious and belong to the Orthodox Christian faith. Because my kids tend to be easily distracted when they get older, I usually take them to the nursery to nurse them. However, I've definitely nursed them in the church itself before (not in the nursery, not in some weird, out-of-the-way uncomfortable location) and have never encountered a problem, even though I've done this in many different parishes. I might just have been lucky, but I also think that a church that genuinely welcomes children (not all do!) isn't going to care if the mom breastfeeds in church and will, in fact, encourage it. Granted, I do cover myself with a blanket or burp cloth, but that is because I want my breast private and want to maintain the holiness of the church as much as possible, and has nothing to do with any dirty looks from the congregants. My two cents.
   Essentially, what we need (if I read the author right) are laws that say, "A woman may breastfeed her baby any time, any place and in any manner she sees fit"? In other words, no modesty clauses or anything "helpful" that actually ends up possibly limiting what the mother can or can't do? I'd be on board with that. If a state has a modesty clause, then anyone can contest that I'm breaking it because they saw my nipple. There should be a law protecting women and babies, with no restrictions. 

   posted by : ChiLaura on 5/18/2009 at 10:54 PM Flag For Abuse

8. Keep the government out of it, indeed. Governments are for paving roads and fighting sensible wars. Once they start vying for control over private life, the people suffer. Laws are for the public good (i.e. prevention of murder) and should thus free, not limit, the honest individual to pave her own roads and fight her own private wars sensibly. Breastfeeding laws do the opposite by making personal battles a public problem.
   
   No clauses, no restrictions, no laws. Let each woman decide for herself, and each place declare what it will tolerate. Ladies, we are not so stupid or insensate that we need laws to tell us how and where to feed the baby. Neither are we so helpless as to need the seedy arm of the government around our shoulders as we do our work as mothers.

   posted by : downbytheriver on 5/19/2009 at 10:38 AM Flag For Abuse

9. Excellent essay. Agree wholeheartedly....my breast, my baby - neither are all that horrifying. Breastfeeding rights are indeed women's rights. Now, if they want to legislate something that is truly horrifying, what about men who adjust their dangly bits in public, without shame...often with great preoccupation and focus - oh my retinas! Or the phenomenon of the two to five inches of hairy belly protruding between the bottom of a too-short shirt and the belt of the pants - these things serve no higher purpose (like nourishing a child) and really are offensive to the sensibilities.

   posted by : M on 5/19/2009 at 11:05 AM Flag For Abuse

10. I don't even understand why this is a topic of conversation anymore.  Who the hell gets harrassed in 2009 for breastfeeding in public?  If you have, I'm sorry!
    

    posted by : Paula Hess on 5/19/2009 at 1:45 PM Flag For Abuse

11. Paula, not sure where you live, but airlines, restaurants, department stores across the country have all made headlines over the past several years for asking nursing mothers to take it to the bathroom. I've been with women in NYC no less who have been shamed for daring to nurse discretely in public.
    
    And sorry to the civil libertarians here, but that's why we have laws. Because the Delta flight attendant and the Denny's manager in Ashville are not the final say on constitutional rights, the same way the middle manager who grabs your ass at work is not the final say on what constitutes sexual harassment.
    
    Sometimes the laws come before the public acceptance of the concept behind the laws. That's progress.
    

    posted by : Mom101 on 5/19/2009 at 2:16 PM Flag For Abuse

12. We recently had a case in N.C. where a nursing mom was asked to cover up or nurse in the bathroom at a Denny's restaurant. When she refused, the police were called and threatened to arrest her for trespassing if she didn't leave the privately-owned restaurant.
    
    The author here is right that the "discretion" clause negates the efficacy of the law.
    
    Here's the column I wrote on the incident: http://www.mountainx.com/ae/2007/022509edgy_mama/.
    
    

    posted by : Edgy Mama on 5/19/2009 at 2:24 PM Flag For Abuse

13. Thank you Rebekah for reading between the lines of current and past legislation. As with other controversial legislation such as Don't Ask Don't Tell, politicians can demonstrate effort by dancing around the central issue, or bigger picture, which is called out by an earlier post mentioning the peculiar American attitude to a mother's obligations (compared to Asian mother standing in line).
    
    Indeed, after my own pumping experience at work, I was inspired to recently launch a clothing line for new mothers who are pumping in the office (or car, or plane, etc.) because most companies support pumping in principle, yet provide inadequate space/frown on the downtime, and that coupled with having to get undressed several times a day due to lack of appropriate pump-friendly clothes is a recipe for ending breastfeeding prematurely due to stress. My goal is to make the pump process a little more efficient by eliminating the need to get undressed (and redressed) and therefore hopefully encourage mothers to stick with it (but no judgment if they don't), however...the bigger issue is overall attitude toward motherhood.
    
    As the typical multi-tasking, constantly streamlining daily processes mother, I have to ask, why devote time to supporting a mushy bill on breastfeeding, when you could spend that time working on the "teeth", such as increased maternity leave or providing more senior-level work from home opportunities and more part time jobs. There are so many mothers out there who could make huge contributions to corporations if only they could do it part-time. Seems like an untapped bargain given this economy.
    
    Getting off my soapbox now. Thanks for sparking this conversation.

    posted by : holliharris on 5/19/2009 at 6:14 PM Flag For Abuse

14. To be honest, most of the people who have problems with women breastfeeding in public are the older generations. The Baby Bommers, the Old Timers, you know, the really old people. The older women don't like the idea of seeing a younger woman's breast feeding her child because they get offended and they don't want the significant other getting a hard one.

    posted by : cortez on 5/19/2009 at 8:56 PM Flag For Abuse

15. I live in Massachusetts (proudly) and I've nursed 2 babies just about everywhere and never had anyone say anything or even look at me funny.  I don't even cover up now, since my 9-month old hates the nursing cover and knocks it away while she nurses.  I'm surprised this is still a problem for others.

    posted by : massnurser on 5/20/2009 at 8:51 PM Flag For Abuse

16. In the 14 months of nursing my daughter, I never once had anyone say anything to me, and I nursed on planes, at professional sports games, in coffee shops...you name it. But then again, I didn't invite people to look, either, or look around to see the reaction. I guess I just felt confident that what I was doing was normal, and I'd say probably 95% of the people who "saw" me nursing didn't even know I was nursing. Don't make a big deal out of it, and it's usually not one.
    That said, I do think that there's a place for laws that TRULY protect mothers. I'm lucky to live in a liberal urban area where breastfeeding is widely accepted and people know better than to object to it, but that's not the norm for most of the country.

    posted by : JessicaMama on 5/20/2009 at 11:49 PM Flag For Abuse

17. JessicaMama and Paula- I've been as discreet as possible (in a corner, facing a wall, covered with a blanket and..) and been called to task, so it does happen.   Actually, any time I've been approached about it in a negative manner, I've been careful to NOT make a big deal about it. 
    
    I think that the only law that needs to be on the books is that it is not an arrestable offense, its not indecent exposure, and that if you allow children there, you are not exempt from these rules.  It'd make things pretty easy, wouldn't it?  (In theory, I know)
    
    My own experience within the working world makes me say "keep the government out of it".  Were FMLA to be extended to all companies, including the small ones, I'd be far worse off as my company's policy went above and beyond what FMLA required.   I have had no issues with taking pumping breaks (well, taking my laptop and sitting in the upstairs conference room and continuing to work while...) because I didn't exactly leave any room for question. 
    
    

    posted by : CV on 5/22/2009 at 10:12 AM Flag For Abuse

18. "Anyone whose nips can handle a child attacking them eight times a day clearly has thick enough skin to come up with a fitting reply..."
    
    This is nonsense.  After four children, you are probably confident, strong and able to stand up for yourself.
    
    A first-time mother struggling with breastfeeding, baby who refuses to latch, milk spraying everywhere, bleeding nipples... might feel a bit more self-conscious than you did/do.  You shouldn't generalise about how you think most women feel.  It has no basis in fact and isn't helpful.
    
    Generally, I agree with you that the modesty clauses are absolutely a bad thing.
    

    posted by : M on 6/19/2009 at 4:07 PM Flag For Abuse

19. The Breastfeeding Bill of Rights bill in NYS is NOT fastidious and not a one-house bill, either.  For the first time, it has finally passed both houses of the legislature.  It does much more than give mothers permission to refuse formula samples.      It certainly does not harm and would do a whole lot of good re. informing new moms as to their rights and support available to them.

    posted by : Myriad on 7/17/2009 at 1:20 PM Flag For Abuse