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... "the several thousand words denouncing its health benefits notwithstanding..." I've read the Rosin article. She didn't denounce its health benefits. She tried to figure out which benefits had actually been proven (through reading studies and conducting interviews with leading breastmilk researchers, although apparently not the Babble author's expert) and whether it had been proven that breastmilk itself or some other factor caused those benefits. And then she invites people to look and decide for THEMSELVES whether breastfeeding is worth it. She clearly decided for herself, because she is breastfeeding her third child, although not exclusively. It is amazing how she has been denounced for bringing her intellect and honest opinion to the question - usually by people who manage to seriously distort what she wrote in order to prove their own point.
The Babble author reduces Rosin's reasoning for continuing to breastfeed to the fact that it's "nice." In the article, Rosin says she continues to breastfeed despite the fact that her review of the science has stripped her of any illusions that her milk is making her child lean or healthy or smart. Instead, she decided that for her, "breast-feeding does not belong in the realm of facts and hard numbers; it is much too intimate and elemental. It contains all of my awe about motherhood, and also my ambivalence. "
posted by : catmom on 4/21/2009 at 1:13 AM Flag For Abuse
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"We are never going to be Norway," she says, rolling her eyes. "There
will never be a situation in America where women . . . will have six
months time to exclusively breastfeed their children."
Why must your site and writers always highlight the most foreign sounding countries to talk about supporting families and motherhood? Especially when you have Canada right next door. Just look a little north and you'll see it can be done in America.
Canada has nearly universal maternity leave. It's not as good a what is provided in some European countries, but it's there and most women I know take it.
There are cultural differences between Canada and the US, but not so many as there are with a country like Norway, Sweden or France.
posted by : Guest on 4/21/2009 at 7:43 AM Flag For Abuse
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I think that the reason so many people are interested in Rosin's article is that there is finally something to counter the "in your face, breastfeeding is the only way to be a good mother" obsession that a lot of breastfeeding mothers have. When I had my first child a decade and a half ago, how you fed your baby was your business. It never came up in conversation. Now, you can't get a group of middle class suburban moms together who have young kids, without breastfeeding being a main topic of conversation.
posted by : Guest 22 on 4/21/2009 at 8:25 AM Flag For Abuse
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I think the reason why Rosin's article is so important is because she makes the point that breastfeeding, while beneficial, is not some magical elixir that is so potent and powerful that any failure to breastfeed is tantamount to child abuse. We all know and agree that breast is best, but it's benefits that make it best are only incremental, so that formula is not a bad option for those who choose not to or can't breastfeed. I think one of the main points of Rosin's piece was to give moms permission to let themselves off the hook, and try to defuse some of that judgment. Breast is best, sure, but it's not *that* much better.
posted by : patricia on 4/21/2009 at 9:31 AM Flag For Abuse
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Amen to this article. The REAL issue is the maternity leave/paternity leave. I am still appalled that the U.S. is so behind on this. Long story short, the U.S. is not the family friendly place it thinks it is.
posted by : Vermonter on 4/21/2009 at 9:40 AM Flag For Abuse
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I think this author makes some very good points but unfortunately, as other commenters have already pointed out, she does so by being intellectually dishonest about (1) what Rosin's article said (I read the article weeks ago) and (2) the strength of the research supporting various benefits of breastfeeding. For example, the author states that "its virtually impossible" to prove that breastfeeding causes babies to be healthier but then states "formula fed babies will have more severe diarrhea and respiratory infections." If we can't prove that breastfed babies will be healthier because they are breastfed, we also cannot prove that formula fed babies will be sicker because they are forumula fed.
Let's be honest-- most babies are BOTH breastfed and formula fed (what percentage of moms are still breastfeeding at 1 year?) so why the polarization in the debate? (why a debate at all?) The current dialogue ignores reality.
posted by : anon on 4/21/2009 at 9:57 AM Flag For Abuse
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I think this was a fantastic piece; I couldn't agree more with your point about feminism and biology. Second wave feminism all but forgot motherhood. We need to rethink how our biology can be a part of lives, not just toss it out or pretend it doesn't exist. Rosin and Judith Warner are dragging us back to a second wave feminist model that is really uninspired. Woman may not ONLY be womb, but she certainly does have one. And it does define quite a bit of her life. Let's make that work.
posted by : cm on 4/21/2009 at 10:58 AM Flag For Abuse
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I also liked this piece. I particularly liked this line: "Why are we so willing to surrender the parts and processes that makes us female rather than demanding that society support them?"
I'm at the end of a year's maternity leave in Canada. I always find it kind of sad when I read the comments on babble about how tough it is to be a breastfeeding mum.
Because, it's not, really (once you get the hang of it, of course). It's tough being a woman who has to pump 3-5 times a day and be away from her 3-month old for 8 hours a day. Rough stuff. I do not envy those women.
My kid was sent in to a rage at the sight of a bottle until she was about six-months old. It was a little annoying, but it really wasn't a big deal, because I could be there to nurse her. I also agree that where there is decent maternity leave there are no "mommy wars" and I hope that the expression becomes obsolete very soon.
posted by : banana on 4/21/2009 at 11:36 AM Flag For Abuse
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I feel that Jennifer's response captured the essence of Rosin's article, which I read as well, and was disturbed by. It is very clear that breast milk is best by far, by the way. Formula is adequate, of course, but why downplay the wonder that we create naturally and that scientists still can't adequately replicate? Why not rejoice in it and fight to make change so if we want, we can have the resources to breastfeed and live lives that aren't restrictive? I have breast-fed, pumped everyday at work, formula-fed, stayed at home, and personally, the pumping and the bottles and formula felt more restrictive when done frequently. I understand that it is a "choice" that should be made once one is informed. It pains me that breastfeeding is being seen as something that keeps women back when it is clearly the way our country supports (rather doesn't fully support) breastfeeding and mothering. Right on, Jen!
posted by : adjm on 4/21/2009 at 12:06 PM Flag For Abuse
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We do NOT have to prove normal, our species specific milk for our human baby is better for them then a concoction of cows milk .
Good work Jennifer.
posted by : one smart cookie on 4/21/2009 at 12:13 PM Flag For Abuse
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Best article I've read on this subject. Jennifer Block does it again!
Why debate? Because while the misinformed whiny moms who just don't want to be tied down give up the fight for their right to feed their children the way nature intended, the other moms who want to live out the full expression of motherhood, if they are able, suffer with paltry programs celebrating pumps and such rather than the leave that all other Western industrialized countries get.
Any one who calls herself a feminist must not deny her female biology and allow it to be considered an inconvenience to industry.
My take: http://mamameyeah.blogspot.com/2009/03/flimsy-case-against-breast-feeding.html
posted by : GP on 4/21/2009 at 12:38 PM Flag For Abuse
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I think the main reason for this backlash is that breastfeeding has been pushed in such an aggressive and sometimes mean-spirited way. I nursed my son for 1 year, but I still think a woman should be able to choose how she feeds her child. Instead of supporting and encouraging women, some felt the best way to get them to breastfeed was to bully them into it.
And to a previous commentator, please stop including France when you talk about nations that support breastfeeding. France has a lower percentage of women who breastfeed than the US. Yes, they get 4 months maternity leave (more for the 3rd child), but after that they are expected to go back to work, and there are no policies allowing for a woman to pump, and breastfeeding in public is really not accepted.
posted by : freedom of choice on 4/21/2009 at 12:50 PM Flag For Abuse
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Re. GP's comment: "the misinformed whiny moms..."
It's this kind of inflammatory name-calling that feeds the "breast battle" between women. Breastfeeding moms (and I'm one of them) are not superior to formula-feeding moms, or to moms who use a mix of formula and breastmilk. Respectful dialogue is the only way women will ever learn to understand and support one another. If you can't resist hurling insults, GP, stay off the thread.
posted by : LauraH on 4/21/2009 at 12:54 PM Flag For Abuse
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In a perfect world we would stop making breast vs bottle feeding an issue. We would let each family decide what works for them and then support them wholly without passing judgment or getting on a soapbox about what worked/ didn't work for us. I desperately wanted to breastfeed my children and could not do it. I had enough milk to feed an army of babies, but they would NOT suck and the lactation consultants could not help me. I had several people tell me that I was doing the wrong thing for my children and it frustrated the heck out of me. My kids are incredibly bright and healthy and seem to have suffered no ill effects from the formula I fed them. I think mothers should decide how they want to feed their children and we should butt out. Have great information available, encourage them in their decision and then move on.
I guess I'm just tired of women who rip each other apart instead of supporting one another.
posted by : Tracie M on 4/21/2009 at 12:54 PM Flag For Abuse
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"It is this dissonance between physiology and culture that has women so frustrated, and feminists like Rosin grasping at the bottle as a proxy for equality." BRAVO, sister!!! Thank you for addressing the roots of the problem and not just the symptoms.
posted by : meghan eckner on 4/21/2009 at 12:58 PM Flag For Abuse
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I agree that there are some pro-breastfeeding advocates who may come across as pushy and aggressive (I have affectionately referred to them as nipple-nazis in the past) but let's be fair - big corporations with one agenda (make money) have very successfully convinced generations of women that formula is better, more convenient and/or as good as breast for their babies. They convinced medical professionals as well as society at large and it has taken a very long time for this so-called backlash to breast is best to gain a foothold. It is such an emotional subject that women are pitted against each other as good and bad parents based on the choices they make. I instinctively know I made the right choice for our family to breastfeed both of my children until 20 months and I have anecdotal evidence that it made the difference in many ways for their health and well-being. But I also know it is a huge commitment and that there were times when I resented how "trapped" I was. It is not for everyone and as a SAHM I cannot imagine having to work and pull that off. I also live in Canada and know we just shake our heads at the sorry state of the great "progressive" nation to our south. Why is it that we can only see narrow choices for women? Why not see what is really needed to make things more supportive for women and their families - longer paid maternity leave, child care initiatives, breastfeeding support, etc - and then the wherewithal by political allies to forge ahead and make changes. Because it is far easier to resort back to infighting among women as to who is the better parent - divide and conquer and keep them busy at the cat fight rather than recognizing who the actual foe is and uniting in battle for real change, change that makes a positive difference in the world for our babies. My motto is and always will be - Be a part of building something up, not knocking something down.
posted by : hoping for sunshine on 4/21/2009 at 1:42 PM Flag For Abuse
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Several of you are hung up on the question of what is superior, breastmilk or formula. That's not the point. The point is the greater benefits to breastmilk are there but they've been exaggerated. And in being exaggerated the present parenting culture has allowed women who can't breastfeed to feel horrible and worse yet to be judged by smug women who are able to breastfeed. Sorry but get over yourselves. My entire circle of healthy, ivy league educated friends were fed formula. If the difference were so pronounced we would see big differences between generations. Let it go. How a woman feeds her own child is nobody's beeswax. Being obsessed with what other women are doing and getting outraged over it as the la leche ladies do is creepy and insecure. That's just get-a-life time right there.
posted by : bigannoyedsigh on 4/21/2009 at 2:24 PM Flag For Abuse
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I'm entitled to my opinion and my opinion is that Rosin and her ilk are both misinformed and whiny. If the moderators of this thread think my comments are inappropriate, they can strike them.
As in any debate, any individual can bring up the unusual case where something "didn't work"---for breastfeeding, it's that the baby didn't latch, didn't have enough milk, whatever. The more we accept this, though, the more it becomes normal. But, by and large, the vast majority of women CAN breastfeed. The fact that we as a species have made it this far proves that. I bet if breastfeeding was the only way we could feed our kids, more people would find a way to make it work.
That said, I am glad that modern technology has made it possible for those who can't breastfeed to see their babies grow into kids. Still, I find so many of the "formula" voices whiny, yes. And I'm sick of it. I'm not going ot be the one to coddle them. At the end of the day, I don't care how some other person feeds their kid. That's their business. But don't delude yourselves into thinking all things are equal in order to rationalize your shortcomings. Own them. Nobody's perfect. Certainly not me.
posted by : GP on 4/21/2009 at 2:29 PM Flag For Abuse
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I am 6mo pregnant with my 3rd - and this article particularly resonates with me. I was thrilled to have the ability to breastfeed my 2 older children into toddlerhood and be able to stay at home with them.
This time, things are different. As committed as I am to breastfeeding my new baby - the company that I work for, sadly isn't. And what is scary is that I work for a company that is consistently rated at the very top of "Working Mother's Best Companies to Work For" and yet even, I, who is SO lucky to have this employer, and this job - get completely inadequate maternity leave to support the kind of breastfeeding relationship that I want and my new baby will need. I am appalled that my leave is so terrible when it is supposed to represent the best in America. My stay at home self was so naive to think that working for such a top rated, family friendly firm would actually meet the needs of new mothers and newborns.
posted by : Young and Ernest on 4/21/2009 at 3:13 PM Flag For Abuse
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I am 6mo pregnant with my 3rd - and this article particularly resonates with me. I was thrilled to have the ability to breastfeed my 2 older children into toddlerhood and be able to stay at home with them.
This time, things are different. As committed as I am to breastfeeding my new baby - the company that I work for, sadly isn't. And what is scary is that I work for a company that is consistently rated at the very top of "Working Mother's Best Companies to Work For" and yet even, I, who is SO lucky to have this employer, and this job - get completely inadequate maternity leave to support the kind of breastfeeding relationship that I want and my new baby will need. I am appalled that my leave is so terrible when it is supposed to represent the best in America. My stay at home self was so naive to think that working for such a top rated, family friendly firm would actually meet the needs of new mothers and newborns.
posted by : Young and Earnest on 4/21/2009 at 3:14 PM Flag For Abuse
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I was fed formula too, but not formula potentially tainted with Melamine or rocket fuel. I think a lot of moms would feel better about this issue if we had stronger FDA oversight of the food supply, especially foods manufactured in other countries.
posted by : NoHo Mom on 4/21/2009 at 3:31 PM Flag For Abuse
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Really enjoyed this response, mainly because it focused on what bothered me most about Rosin's article --- the idea that breastfeeding holds women back.
For me, pregnancy and breastfeeding has made me appreciate this chubby, disproportionate, floppy breasted body for the first time in my entire life. I feel empowered by my womanliness, by my body's usefulness. I was no natural mother, but breastfeeding enabled me to bond with my daughter in a way I don't think I could with a bottle. I feel so proud of my body's ability to grow a human being that I can almost ignore the spare tire I still have wrapped around my middle. How is any of that anti-feminist?
I read Rosin's article weeks ago and as a breastfeeding mom to a
14-month-old, I nodded in agreement to her recounting of the
breastfeeding bullying that goes on in certain social circles. It's
horrible. I find it so sad that in this day and age, women continue to
tear each other down instead of trying to find ways to work together
and make things better for all of us: Like better maternity leaves, for
example.
But Rosin's article -- instead of patching up a mommy war -- just
started another. And my breastfeeding, feminist self really resents
that.
And when Rosin wrote that "no breastfeeding mom will work in any meaningful way," I was particularly angry. I returned to work when my daughter was 8 weeks old, pumped three times a day, five times a week until my laid-off husband took a much better paying job halfway across the country, prompting me to quit my job when my daughter was nine months old. The work I did during those seven months was satisfying, important and kept food on our family's table.
posted by : breastfeeding feminist on 4/21/2009 at 3:38 PM Flag For Abuse
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Noho mom, I was also fed formula. However, as much as you say today's formula is tainted, it is still much better than what we were fed. Even though formula is not exactly like breastmilk, it is much closer. Also, they didn't check as much for contaminants back then. So many chemicals that we now know are dangerous were used in abundance in the "old days".
posted by : gpgirl on 4/21/2009 at 4:06 PM Flag For Abuse
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Sorry, I meant to say "it is much closer today than before."
posted by : gpgirl on 4/21/2009 at 4:20 PM Flag For Abuse
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All you have to do is read your own extremely offensive statement that breastfeedng babies is "what makes us female" to understand what draws people to Rosin's argument. Apparently, those who do not or cannot breastfeed, or (heaven forbid) do not have children at all, are not truly female.
You've really, REALLY got to stop telling other women how to be women. It's extraordinarily offensive, and you clearly don't hear yourself doing it.
posted by : exhaustedfromthis on 4/21/2009 at 4:20 PM Flag For Abuse
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I really enjoyed this thoughtful, well-written article. I've read both the Rosin and the New Yorker pieces and I think this article represents them fairly. What many people seem to be missing is that breastfeeding does not have to be a burden and that with a few changes people who want to breastfeed can do so without sacrificing their career or ending up house bound. If you want to feed your child formula, that's fine too. You will get no arguments from me. I breastfed my child for 16 months and found it easier than dealing with bottles and formula (the mixing, the washing, carting the stuff around, not to mention the cost.). My body did not respond well to the pump, so if I had been in a conventional job where I needed to be separated from my child for 8 hours a day formula would have been my only option.
posted by : Calicopie on 4/21/2009 at 4:55 PM Flag For Abuse
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Why did American feminism evolve in such a way that we think of biology
as destiny, and that destiny as a prison? Why are we so willing to
surrender the parts and processes that makes us female rather than
demanding that society support them? We've broken down doors and
cracked glass ceilings, when what we need to do is redesign the
building.
Exactly, exactly, exactly! Jennifer, you have captured exactly what I wanted to say when I posted about this piece on Strollerderby.
http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/archive/2009/03/13/the-case-against-the-case-against-breastfeeding.aspx
To want to breastfeed exclusively, and to take advantage of being able to, calls into question one's feminist credentials, it would seem. For exactly the reasons you describe in this piece, exclusive breastfeeding for six months in the U.S. may require some career sacrifice and making that choice gets your feminist scorecard totally dinged.
Thanks for a great response to Rosin's piece!
posted by : Madeline Holler on 4/21/2009 at 5:13 PM Flag For Abuse
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But don't delude yourselves into thinking all things are equal in order to rationalize your shortcomings. Own them. Nobody's perfect. Certainly not me.
Sorry, but I don't consider biological realities to be shortcomings. There's nothing morally superior about being able to breastfeed. We used to have traditional solutions when children couldn't latch or the milk wasn't right. Now we have formula. Wanting to be free from breastfeeding is not a new trend. There have been periods of time when (wealthier) women gave over their children to wet nurses for no reason other the freedom it provided them. We make the decisions that make sense for ourselves, our culture and our place in it.
Bottle feeding is NOT a shortcoming. My mother has her shortcomings, but I couldn't honestly look her in the eye and say that not breastfeeding me was one of them. And if I can't tell my mother that, I shouldn't tell anyone else the same.
posted by : JJ on 4/21/2009 at 5:20 PM Flag For Abuse
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I have yet to see a single sensible piece of writing on breast feeding that talks about the probable spurious connection between breast feeding and all these public health benefits. My adopted, bottle-fed babies had all the positive outcomes that breast feeding supposedly provides and none of the negatives formula supposedly threatens. It's no surprise to me, given my socio-economic situation.
When even the most pro-breast experts concede that we don't know if it's the breast or the milk that really provides the benefit, it seems to me that encouraging mother-baby bonding regardless of feeding method would be a good boost to public health too. Not to mention covering everyone for health care so that even if the kid--breast fed or otherwise--does get diarrhea or an ear infection, it will be a small problem. But linking parental leave policies explicitly to breast feeding seems like a foolish approach when it could really be the closeness of the bond, not the milk per se, creating the good outcomes.
I agree 100% that breast feeding ought to be publicly supported and especially that it should be supported in poor countries with high infant mortality rates. Free, nutritious food for babies conveniently packaged can only be a good thing. But if a woman doesn't want to breast feed or simply can't breast feed and she is a middle-class first worlder? Leave her alone and stop acting like she's a child abuser. Her kids will be fine.
By the way, all the bruhaha about rocket fuel in formula made me wonder why we never, never hear about the contamination of mother's milk, due to all our own chemical exposures throughout our lives. Even wealthy women have a lot of dioxin in their breast milk, for example. I'd think pro-breast advocates would be on top of this, working to clean up the environment and protect mothers and babies from these contaminants. But it's like this deep, dark secret, as if talking about it is anti-breast.
posted by : Shannon LC Cate on 4/21/2009 at 6:05 PM Flag For Abuse
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Rosin’s article actually had little to do with breastfeeding. It had to do with her personal guilt in not conforming to some self-imposed high standard of perfect motherhood. Publicly touting the benefits of breastfeeding in an attempt to change cultural attitudes and promote evidence-based information is only controversial if you make it controversial. At the end of the day, human milk is the best for human babies. So what?
posted by : Jilllll on 4/21/2009 at 6:45 PM Flag For Abuse
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I think its a great article.
I breastfed all three of my children. My now adult daughter is exclusively breastfeeding her now 3 month old daughter.
At work she nursed her 4 week old, then pumped and nursed every other feeding and finally was only pumping. When the baby was 10 weeks old she was given a reduction in hours and then finally a note telling her not to pump during her (reduced to four hours))shift and then ultimately fired for a laundry list of reasons (none of which she'd received supervision, write ups etc about). The boss simply didn't want to give her a 15 minute break to go pump a bottle for her baby. By the way- this was a day care center - and her baby was in another room but they wanted her to go 4 hours with out a pump break. This is our society. This is why women quit nursing and pumping when they go back to work.
Breastfeeding should be publicly supported. We have no set up in this country to make it accepted, supported, encouraged.
posted by : Barb in Phoenix on 4/21/2009 at 6:51 PM Flag For Abuse
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Shannon - amen!
Calicopie, I think your post is a bit contradictory. First you say a woman should be able to breastfeed without giving up her career. Then you say if you had a job where you had to be separated 8 hours a day from your child, formula would be the only option. For the great majority of women, working does mean being separated for 8 hours (or more) per day. The lucky women actually are allowed breaks and a place to pump, and an atmosphere that truly supports women taking these breaks. (Which is rare, I'm afraid.)
I read Rosin's article, and I just don't think it is that anti-breastfeeding. It is just trying to show another, very realistic side of the coin. It seems like anything that does not say 100% positive things about breastfeeding is viewed as an "attack".
posted by : gpgirl on 4/21/2009 at 7:00 PM Flag For Abuse
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I have to say that, instead of just saying breastfeeding should be supported, how about parenting in general? Our society really does not support parenting. Not only do we have to go back to work early, but a lot of jobs require so many hours that you can barely see your kids. Even if someone chooses to give formula, don't they have the right to spend time and bond with their children?
posted by : Cali mama on 4/21/2009 at 7:07 PM Flag For Abuse
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Thank you, Jennifer Block, for making such a clear and convincing argument against Rosin's self-pitying diatribe. I think the thing that angered me most about Rosin’s Atlantic article is that here you have a woman from probably the most privileged demographic slice in
the US with access to some of our most influential media outlets. But
does she use her privilege and access to illuminate the barriers that
prevent American mothers from providing their babies with human milk —
lack of maternity leave paid or otherwise, lack of health care, lack of
family-friendly work policies, lack of legal protection for
breastfeeding (or pumping) mothers in public or the workplace? Nope,
she decides to focus on the tiny percentage of extremely privileged
adult women in this country whose feelings are hurt when someone
criticizes them (possibly unfairly) for not having breastfed and in the process sets in motion a shifting of the conventional wisdom to the idea that breastfeeding is merely a luxury for the most well-off among us to indulge in. It’s
sickening. I wrote a full rant on it my blog here: http://bit.ly/9UiqF Unfortunately though, women and family issues are no
exception in terms of the media defending its own class privileges. Glenn Greenwald’s recent post on this was excellent: http://bit.ly/WtJeg
posted by : Cassie on 4/21/2009 at 8:16 PM Flag For Abuse
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It's true -breastmilk itself might be contaminated, maybe even by rocket fuel if you live in an area with contaminated wells, (hello, san fernando valley). I guess I see a society that only pays lip service to parenting is a society that only plays lip service to environmental health, which is a parenting issue too.
I think I'm on the wrong thread. : )
posted by : NoHo Mom on 4/21/2009 at 9:19 PM Flag For Abuse
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The only thing I disagree with in this article is the statement "formula is not poison." Formula can and has killed babies, via melamine, rocket fuel, e. sakazakii, and the list goes on. Powdered formula is not capable of being sterilized, not even with boiling water, as the FDA pointed out in a press release in 2002. Liquid formula can contain high levels of BPA, and the added DHA/ARA has been linked to severe and life-threatening GI issues in some babies. Between 1982 and 1994 alone, there were 22 significant recalls of
infant formula in the United States due to health and safety problems.
Seven of these recalls were classified by the FDA as "Class I" or
potentially life threatening
No, breastmilk isn't magical. It's NORMAL. Formula was only ever intended to be a last-resort feeding method. While the risk is slight, there still exists a risk of contamination, sickness, and possibly death with the use of formula. That risk does not exist with breast milk, even when "contaminated" by environmental toxins. It is not just a matter of choice - it is a matter of our children's health and safety.
I wrote my own response to Rosin's article here:
http://jeremyscorner-grifter.blogspot.com/2009/03/response-to-case-against-breast-feeding.html
posted by : Emily Jones on 4/21/2009 at 10:03 PM Flag For Abuse
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It's important to keep a solid understanding of history. Why did feminists focus on women's right to work, instead of the right to be mothers? Because while mothering (cleaning, cooking, seduction, "womanly" skills) were valued, the women who had those skills were not valued for themselves. Feminists realized that ability to make money and political power were ways to have value in the world, as individuals, rather than interchangeable female archetypes. This is still more or less true. Young women proudly announce that they cannot cook, perhaps to indicate that they have qualities to be valued for that are not traditional womanly nurturing qualities. That said, it makes perfect sense that having acheived a reasonable level of equality in the workplace and in politics, that modern feminists are looking to reclaim the things that were left behind. It's just important to not lose what we've gained, in our attempts to move forward. To some it seems dangerous to value woman as mother, because in the past, that often meant woman as property, woman as child, woman as inferior. So while it may be very important to some to focus on a woman's right to breastfeed, try not to belittle another's right to be CEO as well - future generations of daughters deserve to choose for themselves the path they'd like to take.
posted by : Marj on 4/21/2009 at 11:09 PM Flag For Abuse
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Marj, very true. We can be CEOs and mothers. The next generation of women will hopefully be supported by their society in both.
posted by : adjm on 4/22/2009 at 9:22 AM Flag For Abuse
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Sorry for the harshness of my comments, people. My MIL was visiting and I didn't take my pills yesterday. I am an enthusiastic extended breastfeeder, personally, but everyone just has to do what they want. The discourse is fun, yes, but I understand some people are sensitive and so we should just be kind.
posted by : GP on 4/22/2009 at 11:14 AM Flag For Abuse
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I went home last night and read (and re-read) Hannah Rosin’s
Atlantic article, Jennifer Block’s response on Babble and even Jill
Lepore’s New Yorker article. I also read everyone’s posts above, which
seem to be thoughtful, well-intentioned reactions to the breastfeeding v. formula
debate. But, as many of you point out, there are so many angles to and
issues that grow out of this debate. That said, the reality in this
country is that most working women are not CEOs; rather, they don’t even
qualify for the meager amount of paid leave under the Family Medical Leave
Act. We want to have it all: rewarding work and the satisfaction of being
able to nurture our children. It’s just not that easy sometimes.
The truth is that we all have to make our own path in motherhood and in
life. Ms. Rosin is just saying, yes, to listen to the experts, but take
the media’s reporting on the “expert data” with a grain of salt and, most
importantly, do the best you can and if you can’t breastfeed for 6 months
exclusively, or at all, you are not a monster. As a litigation attorney
with some experience in employment discrimination matters, I see women as
caretakers discriminated against in the work place every day. In my own
experience, when I was (very) pregnant – a male judge actually
asked me if I was going to “give birth right there?” Do you think that
same judge is going to usher me to a private lactation room the next time I am
in his courtroom? I came back from a wonderful 4-month maternity leave with a
6-week trial on my calendar in a city hours away from my home. I love my
career and I love my daughter – but only a husband that's a true partner and a
little formula got me through that first year intact. And it’s true what
Rosin says – you can’t tell the formula-fed kids from the breastfed kids—but a
mother’s love does give them a certain shine. The bottom line is that
families need more support in this country in order for society as a whole to
flourish and infighting amongst ourselves is not going to get us there.
posted by : HappyMom on 4/22/2009 at 11:35 AM Flag For Abuse
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Shannon LC Cate, that's an important point. People talk about Canada's great leave policies, and they are great. But they are not equal. In BC, at least, adoptive mothers get 3 1/2 months less than other mothers get, because some judges have reasoned that they don't have the same "physiological and psychological" experience. So much for the benefits of bonding.http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/01/24/scoc-tomasson.html
posted by : catmom on 4/22/2009 at 12:03 PM Flag For Abuse
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Great post, HappyMom. One quibble, however, on your comment that most women "don’t even
qualify for the meager amount of paid leave under the Family Medical Leave
Act."
There *is* no paid leave under FLMA. All that the law says is that you can't lose your job if you take 12 weeks off after giving birth. Most employers--including the government--offer no paid leave whatsoever.
posted by : lillian on 4/22/2009 at 1:34 PM Flag For Abuse
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Lillian - so true, thanks for pointing that out!
posted by : HappyMom on 4/22/2009 at 1:36 PM Flag For Abuse
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thank you for such a well-written, respectful and even [gasp!!] sensible piece on this latest development in the ridiculous, waspy Mommy Wars!
posted by : jepea on 4/22/2009 at 2:08 PM Flag For Abuse
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I just want to take this opportunity to say nyah nyah nyah nah nah to the woman who called all women who were successfully breastfeeding their children smug. Such a nice supportive approach to other parents. And we wonder why there is this big divide between breastfeeding and bottle...
posted by : childatheart on 4/22/2009 at 2:34 PM Flag For Abuse
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Shannon-~3cbr /~3e
~3cbr /~3e
There is actually a lot of focus on the toxins that are found in breast milk.~26nbsp~3b I think many people first learn of all of the chemicals that we ingest when they become parents.~26nbsp~3b One site that is dedicated to this is safemilk.org.~3cbr /~3e
~3cbr /~3e
To me~2c this should be the biggest issue of all.~26nbsp~3b Formula vs breast milk is an argument that divides and judges moms.~26nbsp~3b Instead we should all be fighting for the health of our children together-and there is NO contested evidence that dioxins and many other chemicals we ingest are carcinogenic and awful for us. If we all demand a food supply that is safe and an environment that is clean~2c than we will be supporting our children much more than we ever could through choosing breast milk or formula.
posted by : EO on 4/22/2009 at 8:20 PM Flag For Abuse
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this article is amazing. it is dead on regarding our country's need to support breastfeeding moms--i am fortunate to have an employer who allowed me to bring my baby to work and/or work from home for 5 months so i could breastfeed, and he provided a great, clean, comfy space for me to pump for the next 10 months, but pumping was tough... i'd do it again in a heartbeat but it's not easy. i am so glad to have read this article after reading the rosin piece. i dont give a hoot if someone uses formula which many of my friends do, but i do know that many choose this route strictly because of their work situations, not out of lack of desire to breastfeed, and thats a bummer.
posted by : JMDS on 4/22/2009 at 10:53 PM Flag For Abuse
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Ah....the usual good mother bad mother - which tries to undermine another article by waxing poetic about how breastfeeding is good for mother and baby (even though it's almost impossible to prove causation).....and about how breast pumps are second best and that we'd just solve all problems if we increased maternity leave.
Here are a few things to chew on:
1. many women just don't like breastfeeding. It isn't good for them psychologically. And even though LLL would say that this makes them 'abnormal' or 'maladjusted' (both words I've seen in LLL literature), this is simply the case. For these women, breast pumps are a godsend. Breastpumps, in fact, are the ONLY reason I survived breastfeeding for a year. Otherwise I would have quit. And I"m really not the only one. We just generally don't say much because we're seen as 'aberrant' and because it threatens the 'madonna with child image'
2. parental leave is all well and good, but you know what, it doesn't really solve the problem of gender inequality - I live in Canada, home to the much vaunted 1 year maternity leave (and 35 week paternity leave). If you're full time and your job 'tops you up' to full salary (rather than 55% of a low salary...it's complicated), then you're fine. If you work part time, or are self employed, you're not entitled to anything, really. And if you're mother OR father, you often experience discrimination in the workplcae in the form of veiled intimidation (about your decision to take parental leave), in the form of losing advantages in your career, etc. This often happens more to men than to women.
3. parental leave - which is essentially maternity leave - ends up ghettoizing women who have worked very hard to get where they are in their careers. Women who are mothers, yes, but who also very much enjoy their work and who want to combine the two. These women are caught in the double bind of having to 1. justify their decision to take parental leave on the one hand and 2. justify their decision to work on the other. Because if they take the leave, they are 'abandoning work' and 'can't be trusted' (I've heard this from several women and I do research in this area) and if they don't take the leave, or take on ly a partial leave, their commitment to mothering is questioned.
4. I fully agree that the concdept of the mother has been largely undertheorized - but I also think that this essentialism of the mother is highly problematic...maybe that's why so much of my scholarly research is in this area.
posted by : canadian scholar on 4/23/2009 at 7:20 AM Flag For Abuse
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sounds like some people just shouldn't have kids...canadian scholar...
what exactly do you want?
posted by : GP on 4/23/2009 at 12:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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Thank you for an even-handed article about such a complex issue. It would be wonderful to see our society get to a place in which all mothers receive the support they need.
GP, I was in the process of responding to your latest post - but your post seems to have been removed. Given the history of your comments on this site, it's not surpising.
GP, This is from your blog:
"It dawned on me today that I want to officially drop out of any discourse involving "Mommy Wars"...that debate between stay-at-home moms and go-to-work moms and anyone else with an opinion to spout off. I never really wanted to be in such a war, or on one side or another anyway, but just in case there was any confusion, here are my latest thoughts… Reading about the lives of other women made me feel like not arguing anymore—if I ever did. I don't know, I think I was just expressing an opinion, but now, somehow I want to soften it... I feel like I don't need to judge or comment on anyone else's life choices. But, I can celebrate my own"
Maybe this is an opportunity for some self-reflection?
posted by : Pleaseknockitoff on 4/23/2009 at 12:48 PM Flag For Abuse
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I am surprised that the post was removed, to be honest.
What is wrong about questioning why someone would even want to have a child if they are so conflicted about motherhood?
It's an honest question.
And, while I do aim to be compassionate to those women who "have" to work (your excerpt from my blog)...and try not to care about those who just "want" to work...I *do* wonder why these people choose to have kids if they can't take 3-5 years out of their lives to care for them properly when they are babies/toddlers/preschoolers? Do what you want. But, I just don't see the point of having a baby and then dumping it off with someone else all day long.
The posts on this website often get me fired up because the women sound so ugly and defensive. If you are really so happy with your choices, then why the defense? And while I support better policies for families, some voices here act like they expect SO MUCH MORE. Even Canada's leave policy is not enough. Seriously, do you want your whole life subsidized by someone else? I don't understand the sense of entitlement some people have.
Women can be both moms and CEOs, but probably not while they have really young children, if they are doing right by their kids. Why not face the reality that life is long and there are seasons to everything? I really just don't get it.
posted by : GP on 4/23/2009 at 1:17 PM Flag For Abuse
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well, looks like every post I make, no matter how mundane or sound or honest is being removed...OK...guess I should get back to work anyway...have fun ladies...
posted by : GP on 4/23/2009 at 1:24 PM Flag For Abuse
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For some historical perspective on the breastfeeding debate, I suggest reading "A social history of wet nursing in America." You can read portions of it online through Google books.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ncYJPOd3dHkC&dq=history+of+wet+nursing&printsec=frontcover&source=in&hl=en&ei=DaTwSeefM5-4tgP25eTzCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=11#PPA6,M1
posted by : li on 4/23/2009 at 1:49 PM Flag For Abuse
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GP, I realize and appreciate that it's an honest question your raising. I don't see any evidence that the commenter above is "conflicted about motherhood" - she simply expressed feelings about her experience breastfeeding and with Canada's maternity leave. Having negative feelings about either of those things does not make her a bad mother. She is being honest - just like you said you are trying to be.
It's just that it comes across as an attempt to feel superior when you suggest that someone else shouldn't have a child because their definition of "mothering" is different from your definition of "mothering." There is really not only one way to "properly" parent. In general, we are all doing the best that we know how to do in our situations and what makes sense for us and our children - that will be a different picture for each family. How you parent your child is no less valid than how someone else does and vice versa. I'm not sure that realize that your posts sometimes come across as sounding "ugly" and "defensive" (as you put it) too. If you feel happy with how you are parenting, why do you feel the need to suggest that someone else's choices make them an inadequate parent? You seem annoyed that people get defensive on here when your comments come across as provocative and hostile. It's kind of a projective identification to do that.
posted by : Pleaseknockitoff on 4/23/2009 at 3:09 PM Flag For Abuse
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canadian scholar, great post. I agree, it is about more than just paid leave. If you take time off of work, you will not have the exact same opportunities as someone who does not. I don't think this is unfair. In all aspects of our lives we need to make choices. It never made sense to me that someone should be able to take a year or more off, but think they should not lose any traction on their career.
This is from someone who decided to take more than a year off when her son was born. However, I totally accept that I will not be on the same career path I once was, and I am totally OK with that. This is the choice I made, and it is the right one for me.
posted by : gpgirl on 4/23/2009 at 3:24 PM Flag For Abuse
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Alright, this will be my last post because I don't get many of the commenters and they don't get me and it's just not worth it. I don't know why I feel the odd draw to get into these kinds of discussions...
I just don't get people who would deny what's normal and natural (breastfeeding and wanting to be close to their young children) in the name of industry, career, feminism, etc. You go against nature, you invite turmoil. That turnoil is evident in all the schedule juggling, running ragged and having to justify your choices.
Again, there is a time in life for everything...if you can't give up a few years in the beginning and things like nursing a baby are so horrible and disgusting, I'll ask again? Why have one?
OK I'm done. Promise.
posted by : GP on 4/23/2009 at 4:08 PM Flag For Abuse
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GP - That is the naturalist fallacy. Your reasoning is faulty.
It is sometimes hard to imagine how others feel. This is where compassion and empathy and true kindness come in. It can act as a bridge when we see another’s behaviour as alien or wrong.
As with all qualities we can’t expect this to come easily to everyone.
posted by : beeker on 4/24/2009 at 12:41 PM Flag For Abuse
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I find it disturbing that this much time and effort is spent on this topic. Why do we, as women, feel the need to validate ourselves by ripping our sisters apart? Don't we have enough on our plates? Children are nurtured through compassion, kindness, understanding, and love. None of these, or any of the other components that truly form a child, can be found in either a breast or a bottle. When will it be that we support and encourage each other, rather than find fault? As long as your baby is getting the best nutrition you can provide, good for you girl! And for the poor first time momies who don't have mommie confidence yet, you're all doing fine, Don't let anyone bully you into making a decision. You have better instincts than you know.
posted by : Sick of this on 4/25/2009 at 9:17 PM Flag For Abuse
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Wonderful piece, Jennifer! We need a new women's movement to demand (among other things) paid maternity and paternity leave, protection of the right to breastfeed in public, on-site childcare for working mothers, etc.
posted by : Jennifer Rowe on 4/26/2009 at 8:30 PM Flag For Abuse
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I feel compelled to take issue with Emily Jones's misleading comments about formula. She has posted the same rhetoric on her own blog and at least one other website that I know of. A quick Google search will debunk or explain further the problems with formula that she mentions. I'm not trying to start a fight with her or anyone else, I just feel that this tactic of scaring people with misinformation or half-truths serves no one. If you research, you'll see that melamine alone is no more toxic than table salt unless combined with cyanuric acid, which is what happened in China. Those two chemicals were found separately in some small batches of U.S.-made formula, but not together which is what would produce the synergystic toxicity. Rocket fuel was NOT found in formula, it was perchlorate, which is one ingredient used in the making of rocket fuel. It has shown up in numerous things, including food and BREASTMILK. Apparently we are all exposed to it and most of us have it in our systems already. The list goes on but I urge everyone to research it and come to your own conclusions. Now, I am not stating any of this because I think it is okay that this stuff has been found in formula or other areas of all of our daily lives. IT IS NOT OKAY! But to attack formula is misguided. Shouldn't we all be on the same side and attacking the real culprits? Corporations and government are responsible for allowing this stuff to get into our water and food, and we need to fight THEM, not each other! And attacking formula just seems so silly in the grand scheme of things. Formula in and of itself is NOT poison. It is a very healthy food that children can thrive on and have thrived on for years. To say that formula is the problem and then bully people about it (I don't recommend going to Emily's comment section regarding this topic unless you want either a good cry or a good laugh, depending on your point of view) is just plain ridiculous.
posted by : mommashay on 4/27/2009 at 12:29 PM Flag For Abuse
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I want to clarify something I said in my previous rant. Melamine in safe doses (yes, there are safe doses if you can believe it) is as toxic as table salt. In extremely high doses it is toxic and that is what happened in China. They had the double whammy of very high melamine dosage combined with the cyanuric acid. And perchlorate is a naturally occurring substance that is found almost everywhere (yes, I know the argument..."but arsenic is also natural, yada, yada) including most of our water municipalities. It has been found in cow's milk which is why it was found in cow milk-based formula. It was not found in formula not made from cow's milk (that's another argument altogether). Yes, children have died from formula but it is almost always as a result of the water that was used to reconstitute the formula. In the other cases (that I know of from my admittedly limited research) it was because either manufacturers were trying to cut corners (like in China) or parents were trying to cut corners (because formula is expensive and they were rationing the portions). At the present, I am finding conflicting information regarding the study that stated formula doubles the rate of infant deaths due to diarrhea because, again, in some studies it has been thought to be the water or rationing, so I'll leave that one alone. Emily even states in her comment that the risk is slight. So why the fear-mongering and holier-than-thou nastiness? Raw spinach has killed children because of e.coli, but no one ever says spinach is poison and anyone who feeds it to their children is unfit. In those cases people realized it for what it was - an isolated incident. Why don't parents get the same respect for formula?
posted by : mommashay on 4/27/2009 at 5:19 PM Flag For Abuse
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I'm all for on-site childcare for working mothers and better maternity leave for both parents. However, I would like to know who is going to protect my rights, and my husband's rights, and my children's rights, to NOT having to see a woman breastfeed in public. How about more lactation stations? While soapboxing about your rights, try to be considerate of the rights of others.
posted by : grossed out on 4/27/2009 at 7:52 PM Flag For Abuse
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To not witness breastfeeding is a right? Conferred by whom? God? Mother Nature? The writers of our Constitution, who all lived and died before formula, and I'm guessing before any kind of routine use of baby bottles? I'm guessing the Pilgrims didn't force their women to retreat to the outhouse when the baby was hungry.
In many states, the ability to breastfeed in public is actually a real, official right because state legislators have approved actual statutes saying that it is. In the majority of states, breastfeeding is completely exempt from public indecency laws - which is where I imagine you think you have derived some kind of "right" to not witness breastfeeding. There is no such right. If the sight of a baby eating in public is offensive to you, you'll have to train yourself to look away.
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/breast50.htm
posted by : catmom on 4/28/2009 at 3:32 AM Flag For Abuse
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I am merely requesting to respect the feelings of others, and responding to a post regarding the "right to breastfeed in public". I expected to be bashed for voicing my opinion since it differs so vastly from the majority. How about make it less obvious? Cover up? Can you step down from your soap box and help find a happy medium? To answer you, no, I did not "derive" anything from public indecency laws. Breastfeeding is not lewd or indecent behavior, and why do you feel the need to become so defensive to someone asking you to cover yourself?
posted by : still grossed out on 4/28/2009 at 7:13 PM Flag For Abuse
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I've never been asked to cover myself, as my adopted child drank formula when she was small. But knowing what I know about breastfeeding, I'd never ask a nursing mother to stuff her child under a blanket. The obvious happy medium is for people with a "grossed out" attitude toward nursing (if it's not lewd or indecent, what exactly grosses you out?) to withstand the small inconvenience of turning their neck in another direction.
Frankly, I think its attitudes like this that drive a lot of the madness that mommashay points out in her comments. That spinach comparison is right on.
posted by : catmom on 4/29/2009 at 1:14 AM Flag For Abuse
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And for what it's worth, I'm not bashing you for voicing your opinion. I'm picking apart the substance of your opinion. There's a difference. You're trying to claim a right that doesn't exist, at the expense of one that does.
posted by : catmom on 4/29/2009 at 2:19 AM Flag For Abuse
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I have nothing to add to this discussion because I don't really care if anyone breastfeeds, pumps, or gives formula as long as they feed their babies on a regular basis, preferably in a loving manner, but I do want to let Jennifer Block know that I loved Pushed and recommended it to all my friends. It was a great read and very informative. All that stuff about "natural" birth being fulfilling and enjoyable was total crap, though. The Spanish Inquisition couldn't come up with anything more painful than childbirth.
posted by : Werewolf Bar Mitzvah on 4/29/2009 at 9:59 AM Flag For Abuse
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Pilgrim women would never have nursed their babies in mixed company. To them it would have been tantamount to pole-dancing. Nudity of any kind was not acceptable. They might have been okay with nursing in company of female relatives, but probably not in a group of unrelated women. Yes, I am a history buff, and in particular find social history fascinating.
posted by : Marj on 4/29/2009 at 7:04 PM Flag For Abuse
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Am I to now believe every opinion not falling into the majority is going to have its substance picked apart? Maybe I should have been more discreet. Is it alot to ask that women who choose to nurse in public cover up just a little (and no, I'm not asking anyone to "stuff their child under a blanket")?
posted by : even more grossed out by behavio on 4/29/2009 at 10:38 PM Flag For Abuse
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Sounds like someone here would fit right in. I'm curious - what did the women do during those six-hour church services. I can see outside in summer, but what about those New England winters... outhouse?
posted by : catmom on 4/29/2009 at 10:53 PM Flag For Abuse
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I've seen shirtless dudes in the park with bigger tits than mine. I'll nurse wherever the law allows, and if anyone has a problem they can take it to their therapist. Grossed out by a woman feeding a baby. Please. I'm grossed out ugly people, but you don't see me throwing a blanket over them.
posted by : pullquote tk on 4/30/2009 at 9:00 AM Flag For Abuse
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I'm a lactation counselor and former breastfeeding and pumping mom and find these recent articles very interesting. What I find particularly interesting is the dissection of the science and evidence based research by lay-people, non-scientists and non-researchers like Rosin and others. What they seem to skim over ever so lightly is what this author has beautifully stated when referring to Rosin: “The individual risk of formula-feeding her children may be relatively small, but public health is about the collective, and among a population the risks of not breastfeeding are significant.”
Regarding the New Yorker piece, I found it a very interesting angle. I too would have loved an extended maternity leave during which I could have spent time nursing, getting to know my babies better for a longer period of time and not worrying about having to take off time without pay but that was not the situation I was in at the time and not what the country was offering me. While we work to achieve extended maternity leave that would make allows mom this valuable time, the solution, in my opinion, is to offer the kind of support that will enable a mom to provide her baby with her breastmilk and in many cases that means a suitable place for pumping and supplies for pumping.
Like so many moms who go back to work after a paltry maternity leave, years ago I did not have all the community or employer support that I needed to make this an easy feat. But I did not give up and blame society for not supporting me. It would be nice to have a full year off, paid, but, I knew that was not feasible in our country at that point, so I made the commitment, found a place to do it, and did the best that I could. I did not harangue those who made different decisions than me because I know the barriers are there and very real. Rather, I sought ways to support those who needed support, who wanted to make breastfeeding and breastmilk feeding work in their situation and life. Because they wanted to make the best decision they could for their baby. Because there is evidence-based research that clearly shows the risks of not breastfeeding despite attempts by lay people like Rosin to refute it to make themselves feel better for feeling like they got bullied into breastfeeding.
Women are making it work every day, and while it is not for everyone, they are making a commitment to providing their babies with their breastmilk. There are situations (lack of space, accommodations, and support) that can make this very difficult. But it is possible, and many, many moms willingly make that commitment. Rosin sheds light on many issues—namely her frustration with the “system” who tells moms how important it is to breastfeed but in many cases does not accommodate that recommendation. But taking the tact of trying to poke holes in the evidence based research is fruitless.
Gina Ciagne, CLC
Lansinoh Laboratories
www.bymomsformoms.net
posted by : Gina Ciagne on 4/30/2009 at 9:45 AM Flag For Abuse
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I refuse to acknowledge this site of "I need to validate myself by bashing other moms". Some of the women here are needy, mean and abusive to the point its not even worth reading or writing anything. From what I can see, the bottom line is that being a mother is so difficult, and often only self-rewarding, that the only way some women can assure themselves that they are doing a good job is through trying to tear other moms down. They seem to have no respect for anyones opinion but their own. I have to agree that hairy, sweaty shirtless men really turn my stomach too. I hate to use this phrase, but can't we all just get along and do the best for each other that we can? It's hard enough to be a mom; the added scrutiny is just plain painful.
posted by : Nurse G on 4/30/2009 at 10:08 AM Flag For Abuse
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Did I get deleted for referring to boobs as "tits," for demeaning large-breasted men, or for expressing my dislike of ugly people? or all of the above?
posted by : titmouse on 4/30/2009 at 10:24 AM Flag For Abuse
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I liked this article a lot; excellent response to Rosin's piece.
Each person has complex reasons for not breastfeeding, or choosing to do both, or pumping, or whatever. Why don't we start asking to hear these people's stories instead of passing such quick judgment?
posted by : motherofthree on 5/3/2009 at 12:45 PM Flag For Abuse
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This is a wonderful article.... My feelings exactly.
posted by : mydaughterwasaboobybaby on 5/14/2009 at 11:32 PM Flag For Abuse
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I am fascinated by the breast/formula debate in the same way people can't help but look at accidents on the side of the road. My fascination leads me to read most things I see on the issue and I've come down to a few thoughts.
1 - On the mommy wars aspect of it, I cannot understand why anyone cares how anyone else feeds her baby. Really, how another mother feeds her baby just has absolutely no relation to me or my family at all. It seems, though, that a lot of people care a lot. Strange. I also can't understand why anyone cares if someone else is breastfeeding in public. I have done it loads of times (I think fairly discretely) and, honestly, if I never read these articles, it would never even occur to me that anyone might have a problem with it. I have never, ever seen a woman breastfeed in public without making an effort to make it not terribly intrusive. In fact, I can't recall ever seeing a woman breastfeed in public at all until I was a mother myself.
2 - It does bother me that certain (probably most) working moms don't have a real choice to breastfeed beyond maternity leave given the lack of suitable conditions for pumping. This is not to imply, however, anything negative about moms who have access to suitable conditions, but choose not to pump. It's the lack of real choice that bothers me - not the choice itself.
3 - When the literature refers to WHO recommendations, I always want to know how or whether the health of the mother plays into these recommendations. The health issues with formula feeding in areas without clean water are obvious to me. But it also seems like in those same areas, mothers themselves are likely malnourished and how good is the milk from such a mother? I understand that part of the issue in these very poor areas is that the only available alternatives are things other than formula, and whatever those things are, they are very likely not as good for babies as breastmilk. But I think that putting all the data together (breast v. formula and breast v. anything else) is a bit of a distortion. I mean, no one would seriously debate that in a competition between breastmilk and dirty, microbe-laden water - breastmilk wins.
These types of articles and the comments that follow are always thought-provoking. Thanks!
posted by : anon25 on 5/15/2009 at 3:19 PM Flag For Abuse
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This is such a fraught issue. I think that Rosin's article was good not because of its content, exactly, but for its message- mothers should be able to make choices that are best for them and their lifestyles. I think that the response contains some wisdom- namely, that the support for parents (not just mothers) in this country is absolutely awful compared with most wealthy countries. I have a friend who is still breastfeeding her son at almost two, who has been sick many months of his life. I stopped breastfeeding when my daughter was six weeks old because of severe postpartum depression that necessitated medication. She's been sick once (at 14 months now). These are just two examples, but I think we need to stop fighting about what is the correct choice for everyone, and try to make the best choice for our individual family situations.
posted by : bethjen on 5/15/2009 at 7:55 PM Flag For Abuse
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I agree totally with this article. I truly think that it is a crime in our country that women are not able to stay home for at the very least 3 months after the birth of a child. I think if more women did not have the stress of knowing that they have to go back to work at 6 or 8 weeks more would choose to nurse. It would also allow for a longer period of mother/baby bonding. I chose to nurse if I was able and my child did much better than all my friends who had babies (about 7 friends had babies at or around the same time) and chose not to nurse or were not able to for one reason or another. My child is now 6 months and he is much stronger and more aware than the other children. I strictly nursed for 4 months and then supplemented with formula 2 times a day. I would have liked to strictly nursed but because I had to go to work 2 times a week and was not able to pump during the day ( i don't have a job that allows even 5 minutes of down time) my milk production diminished. I still nurse 3 times a day and am going to continue it until a year if I can. I just think that nursing a baby, like the article states, is what is natural for a baby and the best source of nutrition. However it is a personal choice but because there is not enough media promoting it most women do think it is sort of taboo because of the sexual element we in this country place on breasts.
posted by : justamom on 5/16/2009 at 3:53 PM Flag For Abuse
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What bothered me most about Rosin's article is her statements about breastfeeding tying a woman to staying home. In fact, the opposite is true. With bottle-feeding, you needs to schlep around clean bottles, formula, water, and perhaps a cooler, while with breastfeeding, all you need is the baby.
When my son was younger, I loved the freedom of being able to spend the day out with him without having to worry about taking all of the extra feeding supplies. He and I would spend hours at a time out of the house, running errands or going to the park. It was great.
It is a huge misconception that "breastfeeding in public" has to mean showing my breasts to the entire world. I live in Texas, which is just about as conservative as it gets, and I
was always able to find somewhere to breastfeed while we were out. (And I'm a very modest person by nature). I would even argue that most times, people didn't even realize what I was doing.
Having said this, I strongly feel that the decision to breastfeed or bottle-feed is a personal decision for each mother. We need to respect other mothers' choices in this matter.
posted by : TexasMama on 5/22/2009 at 10:18 AM Flag For Abuse
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To breastfeed is a choice a Mother makes for the better of her baby. I don't know how anyone could possibly argue that a man-made product could replace the naturally healthful qualities of Mothers milk. As a society we are learning that natural home made foods are best and that processed foods are generally unhealthy. Why then wouldn't this principle apply to baby food? I know what I am putting into my body and what quality of milk my baby is getting. I don't trust what any of the formula producers are putting into their product. What I know for sure is that my baby won't be ingesting any chemical protein boosters such as Malamine. It's hard to believe that the producers of formula can sleep at night knowing what they are passing off as healthy food for babies. As for maternity leave differences. Yes, I do live in Canada and have taken my 1-year leave. However, I have friends who work for themselves and have not received the same leave. It is still possible to breastfeed. Pump, store and feed by bottle. Not convenient but neither is preparing bottles for formula.
posted by : Breastfeeding Moma on 6/3/2009 at 4:37 PM Flag For Abuse
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For a baby, having thier mother's breast milk is their number one right as a human being. So just give them their right. The <a title="Important facts about breastfeeding" href="breast">http://http://www.baby-newborn.com/important-facts-about-breastfeeding/">breast milk </a> giving exclusively for six months, there is no doubt about it.
posted by : babys fans on 6/25/2009 at 2:03 PM Flag For Abuse
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misunderstand or ignore the point of the article it criticizes. The original article was important because it addresses the ways in which women are being forced out of the job market by "total mothering" a process that privileges even the most tiny possible benefit for the child over overwhelming and obvious benefits for the mother or for society at large. To be clear, I am not opposed to nursing; I am deeply concerned about the ways in which it is unequally "enforced" by societal norms and the ways in which it is linked to religious beliefs about women's purpose. What has me the most concerned, however, is the “total mothering” ethos that is so prevalent in our culture, the one that says “I am my child’s mother” to the exclusion of “I am a person of multi-facets, multiple relationships, responsibilities and desires; chief among them is my role as mother. I do not live to be a mother; I mother as a part of living.”
What we are saying is that a woman should regularly submit herself to the intimate touch of another, whether or not she enjoys said touch, because it is likely to provide the other person a marginal improvement in health, intelligence or emotional well-being. Given that the woman has less societal value, she should provide this intimate access to her body even thought it isolates her and deprives her of her livelihood. We are further asserting that if she does not have positive feelings about this intimate touch, she is deeply flawed either psychologically or morally.
posted by : GoodEnoughMom on 9/4/2009 at 12:59 PM Flag For Abuse
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I had difficulty breastfeeding both of my babies at the beginning of their lives - but I persevered and am very glad I did. I'm not saying this because I think I am a better Mom for it but, I do think that I am a richer Mom for it - formula can be very expensive! For me, breastfeeding works and is free, an excellent combination. Having said that, I live in Canada and have a year paid maternity leave...if I had to head back to work after 6 weeks, there is really no way I could still be breastfeeding my 6 month old.
posted by : chesmom on 10/12/2009 at 8:19 PM Flag For Abuse
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Breastfeeding shackles women to the home? Um, there's this neat little gizmo called a BREASTPUMP. I have a 7-month old daughter who continues to breastfeed, and receives my bottled breastmilk at daycare, even though I came back to work full-time 3 months ago. She hasn't had formula since her 1st day home from the hospital in April. It's not a big deal; I close my office door twice a day for 15 minutes and pump, and usually pump at night after she goes to bed. It does make it harder to do other things out of the house, because that means more pumping to provide bottled milk. And it makes travelling for work almost impossible to consider. But it's only a year, for pete's sake, so I can deal with it!
Yes I'm lucky. I'm lucky my breasts work (although most breasts do work as designed, given the chance...). I'm lucky my daughter never had nursing problems or bottle confusion, even though she was born 3 1/2 weeks early by c-section and didn't get "just after birth" nursing time. I'm lucky I have an office with a door and an understanding employer (although I think an employer who didn't let a mother take pumping breaks would face a pretty serious complaint, considering the promotion of breastfeeding by health professionals). And I'm lucky that pumping works for me: that I'm able to let-down when pumping and don't find pumping to be uncomfortable.
My daughter is healthy and thriving, has never had an ear infection or sickness more serious than a cold, is average weight and 95% height, and is alert, cheerful and LOVES her milk. I love the closeness of breastfeeding and take pride in giving my daughter the nutrition that nature intended, not some substitute from a chemistry lab. Working full-time and mothering is hard, yes, but certainly not due to breastfeeding. It's hard because there's no time outside of work to clean the house, cook anything more than a simple meal, shop for myself, etc. Evenings and weekends are just not enough when the baby demands your attention and you're tired all the time. But bottle-feeding with formula wouldn't change any of that.
Geez, Rosin needs to get a grip. This is 2009, not 1975. Breastpumps are readily available, not that expensive (try buying formula for a year!!!), and LOTS of mothers work full-time outside the home, breastfeed, and pump.
posted by : pumpingmom on 11/4/2009 at 3:13 PM Flag For Abuse
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You are misinformed; we have not cracked glass ceilings. We have ricocheted off of it. There are only 12 female CEO's of Fortune 500 companies and only 23 of the top 1000 companies. This means that out of the 21 billion dollars generated by Fortune 500 companies each year, we control less than 2.4%. We are in no way reasonably represented in our government or in other positions of power. At the rate we continue to make advancements, you and I will both be dead before women are equally represented in positions of power.
We have responsibility to not only our own children but to all the children of the world to create a world in which it is safe to be a child and a woman. We can only do this if we finally break through that glass ceiling. As a feminist, I do not believe that biology is destiny or a prison. I believe that it is our destiny to actively fight for equality or daughters and grandchildren will be imprisoned by inequality even worse than our own.
For the record, I breastfed my oldest, but bottle-fed the youngest. Both are now young adults and the younger child is healthier, better adjusted and equally attached.
posted by : Been there done that on 11/10/2009 at 2:45 PM Flag For Abuse
