Babble

I just read a long post on a parenting listserv I belong to that has sparked a debate and I wanted to gauge the temperature on this board. The woman wrote in to complain about someone's reaction to her nursing her 2+ old son and then nursing her newborn. She was in the park and her son fell down. He's still nursing and needed some comfort.

The debate doesn't seem to be whether or not she should be nursing in public, but whether or not she should still be nursing her 2+ son. I didn't even get into the debate because I believe that how long you nurse your child is a personal choice and definitely something that a mother gets to decide. I'm not opposed to nursing an older child, my own officially weaned at 19 month.

I'm just curious as to what other people think about nursing a child past the suggested 12 month mark. Is this something universally deemed as wrong or gross? I honestly never gave it a thought since my original goal was to reach 6 months, then 12 months and then my goal was to get my son to start drinking cow's milk.

I actually applaud this woman for attempting tandem nursing. It's something I would never attempt (unless I had twins) because nursing takes so much out of you. It's an interesting debate, and I'm wondering what your thoughts are.

I'm still nursing at 14.5 months and planned to basically try to wean naturally when he's read. I work 32 hrs a week, so he is not in the habit of nursing during the day (although the days I am home, he does ask for it still sometimes). He is happy mostly with his sippy-cup of milk, but is still  used to nursing daily  before bedtime and in the morning, also middle of night if he wakes and won'[t go back to sleep.

I sort of mentally figured we'd wean completely around 18 months. A close friend nursed her son til almost 3 (just once every few days by the end, I think). That seemed old to me, and I'd like to think we'll be done with it by the time he's two. But I also am not sure what I would do if he doens't just stop asking for it and make it easy for me.

To your question, though, I have to admit today at library story time when he wanted to nurse (and made it very clear), I felt a moment of unease because I tend not to be in sitations these days where I have to nurse my rambunctious toddler in public, and he is all about climbing on and off me, waving my shirt in the air to show off my breast to the world, and no on -- all of which is fine at home but not so much out in the world (for me). It was easier and felt more socially normal nursing a wee baby in public, discreetly. Nothing about nursing a toddler is discreet!

I did end up nursing  him a bit, then distracting him with a book so we could stop for the moment. I think that woman i the park is utterly (udderly?) within her rights to nurse and that people should shut up about judging her, but I also can see how some people would find it uncomfortable to see a toddler nursing in public, and as a nursing mom, I think it's polite once you have a kid old enough to uderstand some distinctions, to explain that nursing with mommy is something we do only at certain times/places.(Of course, kid falling in park and needing a little comfort, I would probablky nurse him too! But if the woman nurses him in public all the time, I think that's a little weird)

(sorry this was probably quite rambling I'm tired)
 

I'm tandem nursing a 3 year old and a 10 month old. I actually found it easier than dealing with a screaming upset child would be. He can nurse for comfort and nutrition and all the health benefits. Cow's milk is not very good for young kids but I do let him have chocolate milk and he still nurses (LOL DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES MYTHBUSTER)

The WHO and AAFP and most countries in the world recommend a minimum of 2 years. The 12 month mark is a suggested minumum, not a maximum.
But we live in a strange culture where we think formula is better, cow's milk is better, anything besides nursing is assumed to be better. Like if the child won't take a pacifier you have a heart attack. Breastfeeding is the way humans evolved being parented. It's much more than food, but taking that away too soon can put the child at risk of additional disease and infection.

 

If nursing is taking a lot out of you you might want to think about how you're eating. You definitely need plenty of nutrition and fluids and rest as a nursing mom, even more as a tandem nurser.

Ugh stupid computer lost my post for a second time.

12 months is a suggested MINIMUM by the AAP, not a maximum. Most countries however recommend a MINIMUM of 2 years. IN fact our own AAFP does as well, and the WHO does too.

Many moms want to wean as soon as possible, I am not sure why. Some people get embarrassed by breastfeeding, it's still viewed as abberrant and if people think your child doesn't need it they feel it's their business to say so.

But you wouldn't walk up to a mom in a grocery aisle and tell her her child doesn't need those fruits and veggies so she should put them back. The difference is that men think women's breasts are for their pleasure only , and women are afraid to violate any social taboos. But prior to formula and their incessant marketing all babies had to have mother's milk and weaning was between moms and their kids, not left up to so-called experts.

Just because it's possible to forcefully wean a child doesn't mean it should always be done, especially if there is no medical emergency that requires it. Nursing is part of the way children relate to life and to take that away leaves a missing piece. Children will eventually wean themselves.

 For what it's worth, I tandem nurse (out of necessity ... I have twins). My children are nearly 19 months. They still nurse. And, even though I love to nurse them, I usually don't nurse in public. Partly because most people, even ones that are generally pro-nursing, aren't always comfortable with older babies breastfeeding. I wish I knew why!

I don't tandem nurse in public, though, because I cannot do it without flashing. I have, however, nursed one child at a time on various occasions (In fact, my son got a little sip at church yesterday ... he was tired and hungry and wouldn't calm down).

When I started nursing, I wasn't sure how long I would be able to do it. Thankfully, even after my children started teething, we've been able to keep going strong. I'm extremely thankful for that. I used to hope to make it to six months, nine months, a year ... Now I just relax about it and enjoy the time and the guaranteed cuddles that I get with my (ever-growing) babies. (And, to be honest, I'm very grateful for the helped weight loss that it's brought, too.)

I do wonder what it will be like when we have more children. Am I going to still be nursing then? And, if so, will we have to draw straws to see who gets to nurse when? :P

However, I think that, optimally, weaning should only come when it is mutually desired. Truly, my children would probably be satisfied eating just solids now ... but I really do love to nurse. Should I punish myself just so everyone else around us is comfortable? I sure hope not! ^_^ 

I hope I've stayed on topic, Brooklyn Mama. And good for you, nursing to 19 months! That's great! I'm glad that you brought this up.
 

 

What I love about nursing is that there are no rules.  My son is almost 14 months and he's still nursing whenever he wants it.  I don't mind because honestly that's our only cuddle time...he's a free spirit and a bit of a wild child.  I recently found out I am pregnant and some people have suggested that I start to wean my son.  I don't see anything wrong with nursing my son and my new baby.  He'll be around 19 months at that point and if he wants it still I don't see why I should take it away from him and myself for that matter just to make others around me feel comfortable.  I don't nurse in public so I think that my nursing preferences should be mine and mine alone.  I congratulate all  you mommies out there who  continue to nurse past the one year mark. 

I nursed my now 4 year old son until he was 23 months and would have gone longer but my newly pregnant breasts were too sore to take tandem nursing. We gently weaned. (and I miscarried - double regrets)

This new boy is only 2 months old, but I intend to let him nurses as long as he pleases (well, as long as he isn't in the public school system! I think that will be too long for me!). We just have to make sure bfing works out first :)
 

Mim:

I'm still nursing at 14.5 months and planned to basically try to wean naturally when he's read. I work 32 hrs a week, so he is not in the habit of nursing during the day (although the days I am home, he does ask for it still sometimes). He is happy mostly with his sippy-cup of milk, but is still  used to nursing daily  before bedtime and in the morning, also middle of night if he wakes and won'[t go back to sleep.

I sort of mentally figured we'd wean completely around 18 months. A close friend nursed her son til almost 3 (just once every few days by the end, I think). That seemed old to me, and I'd like to think we'll be done with it by the time he's two. But I also am not sure what I would do if he doens't just stop asking for it and make it easy for me.

To your question, though, I have to admit today at library story time when he wanted to nurse (and made it very clear), I felt a moment of unease because I tend not to be in sitations these days where I have to nurse my rambunctious toddler in public, and he is all about climbing on and off me, waving my shirt in the air to show off my breast to the world, and no on -- all of which is fine at home but not so much out in the world (for me). It was easier and felt more socially normal nursing a wee baby in public, discreetly. Nothing about nursing a toddler is discreet!

I did end up nursing  him a bit, then distracting him with a book so we could stop for the moment. I think that woman i the park is utterly (udderly?) within her rights to nurse and that people should shut up about judging her, but I also can see how some people would find it uncomfortable to see a toddler nursing in public, and as a nursing mom, I think it's polite once you have a kid old enough to uderstand some distinctions, to explain that nursing with mommy is something we do only at certain times/places.(Of course, kid falling in park and needing a little comfort, I would probablky nurse him too! But if the woman nurses him in public all the time, I think that's a little weird)

(sorry this was probably quite rambling I'm tired)
 

"udderly" LMAO

What's wrong with breastfeeding? Why is it weird to nurse a toddler in public?

I think it's weird to give your baby homogenized, pasteurized cow's milk in a sippy cup. Especially if it's not organic. Why do we drink this stuff? OK it tastes good in coffee and milk shakes. Yes, it's easier than fixing a meal. But how healthy is that really?

I occasionally let my toddler have chocolate milk as a treat because it's slightly better than some of the foods he likes to eat over and over, but really, why do "we" think cow's milk is better or preferable to nursing our children and giving them healthy food that they want and need?

Do "we" really think nursing is sexual?

Gee whiz ladies. Let's get a bit more backbone.

I nursed my son until about 18 months (mutual decision).  I work outside the home so he was used to the bottle, but whenever I was home with him it was the real deal. I remember my first public “showing”. I was in a little shop and he was probably 6 months old or so, he was hungry and I turned to my husband and said “he’s hungry let’s go”. The owner of the shop overheard me and said “if your baby is hungry, you sit right down and feed him,” so I sat down right next to the dominatrix boots and whips (did I mention we were at a shop that sells “tobacco products” as well as “relationship enhancers”?) You could tell the fathers who’s partners nursed they would glance our way, and then move on to more important things. The poor guys who had not experienced this before turned bright red, didn’t know where to look and quickly ran away. Because as we all know watching a nursing mother is so much more explicit than looking at large, rubber….sausages and plastic sheep. After that I wasn’t so embarrassed. I never had to tandem. So I can’t say how I would handle it, but as I thought I wasn’t really going to enjoy nursing I guess you never know until you are in the situation.

 

That is such a good topic! Before I gave birth to my first child I attended a LLL meeting. There were women there who were nursing their children...of many different ages. I left the meeting and my initial thought was OM Goodness! How could these people still be nursing their children. :-) I even mentioned it to my midwife who told me to come back when my baby was 12 mo old and tell her how I feel at that poing.

My DD is now 7 mo old and still exclusively breastfed. The AAP suggests that we breastfeed our children until AT LEAST 12 months. The UN suggest breastfeeding for AT LEAST the first 2 years. I agree that it is the mother and child's deciscion, not the publics. I also applaud the woman for attempting the tandem nursing - I sometimes feel overwhelmed with just the one.

I knew a woman once who BF until after her daughter was over 4 years old and she told me that she did it because of the connection she felt she had with that daughter and she needed that connection. (More for herself at that point than for her daughter.) But again it was the mother's choice.

I, personally don't plan to breast feed past 24 months... my goal at this point is to make it to 12 months. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this issue. I find that my opinions have changed drastically on many issues since that fateful day in March - ignorance plays a huge part in peoples' reactions and comments a lot of times. (That's ignorance-not educated on a topic AS OPPOSED TO stupidity-an insult at one's intelligence.) :-)

I personally believe 5 years is long enough. I was (regrettably) only able to nurse my son for 6 months and my daughter for 7.5 months. You can nurse you children for as long as you want. If someone has a problem with it just tell them to f-off. Okay so I actually did do that when someone got mad at me for nursing while shopping.  If people don't like it then they shouldn't be looking. Yes I am a little sassy right now nursing subjects get me going. Its the people who complain about seeing someone nurse are the people who are giving nursing a bad name. If you wnat to whip your tit out and feed your (insert age here) then do it. Better yet get a shirt that says Whips the titties out when it if feeding time. Hey at least you gave everyone a fare warning before you did it. Okay I am done now before I get myself into trouble.

I am tandem nursing my 2 y.o. and 4 y.o. I never really intended to do this.  My son was almost 2 when his sister was born.  I nursed him throughout my pregnancy with no problems.  (Although I did have to lie to my doctors because they were sure I would have a miscarriage because of it.)  He was almost done nursing by the time she came along, but then jealousy set in and he started up again.  Neither one of them show any signs of quiting, though the 4 year old started preschool this fall and he is nursing less and less.

Last week I went to a doctor at an urgent care center  for a terrible cold and a swollen lymph node in my neck.  He prescribed an antibiotic and I asked if it was ok to take that while nursing.  He asked how old the baby was,  I said two.  (no way was I going to tell him about the 4 yo)  He turned around and said "TWO YEARS?"  I said yes.  He then started rambling that I should talk to my doctor about it because yes women should breastfeed but well it's up to you but there's no data to support that b.f. after 6 months has any value, he's heard of it but I should definitely talk to my doctor she should be weaned if she keeps sucking I will keep making milk.  Now, he never did feel the swollen gland but did give me a 5 minute lecture about my baby being too old to nurse.  My goodness, no wonder so many women don't do it.
 

I had a minor fender bender and the ER doc gave me a script for Vicodin.  When I told him I didn't need and wouldn't take it anyway because I was breastfeeding he said, "Oh it won't hurt the baby, it'll just make him drowsy."  Yikes!  Needless to say I did not fill the script.  Unfortunately most docs know little about what is appropriate for bfeeding moms, let alone the stigma we have in this country about nursing older children.  I'd contest the urgent care dr's assertation that there is no research to indicate benefits beyond 6-months.  Although the greatest benefit may be in the first six months, you only have to do a simple web search to find many clinical studies showing the benefits of breastfeeding longer than that, but what would an urgent care doc know about that anyway.

I'm curious to know if anyone out there has done some traveling and found a difference in attitudes towards breastfeeding in public.  I've heard from other mothers who have traveled to Europe and Mexico that they did not encounter the sort of hang-ups we have in the US.

I'm due at the end of November and spent 4 months of my pregnancy on a gestation vacation in Guatemala watching the Mayan women there parent their children.  Baby-wearing, co-sleeping and public breastfeeding are the norm.  One mother even breastfed while walking down the street.  No one bats an eye.  But they do it discreetly (they tend to be either Catholic or Evangelical, and modest in either case) under their wraps and thanks to blouses that have openings down the sides so as to easily slip their breasts out of the shirt and into the baby's mouth.  They tend to BF until at least 2 -- I didn't personally witness any BF-ing after that age but who knows.  I have heard that the norm around the world in non-industrialized cultures is to supplement solids with breast milk until age 5 or 6. 

As an aside, I have never seen happier, better-behaved children than the materially-deprived but utterly loved Mayan children.  No crying, no tantrums, no fussing, not even after hours traveling on a boring bus ride.

 But as to the comment above about BF-ing not being sexual, I think that's wrong.  I think pregnancy, birth and BF-ing are part of a woman's grand sexual arc, involving the same organs, hormones and feelings.  We need to get over the idea that our sex parts are reserved for our lovers only or that the physical intimacy we usually call "sex" (or maybe we limit ourselves to having physical intimacy only during sex?) is too dirty to be part of our attachment to our children.  Easier said than done, and I'm sure I'll have a hard time (having been raised in the sex-averse culture of Evangelical Christianity, despite having rejected it thoroughly) whipping them out in public to feed my son when he finally joins us on this side of my uterus.  But so long as he wants to do it, I'll try to let him, even if he's 4.

 

At one point in time I thought that extended breastfeeding was "gross."  I used to say (in my prebaby days) that once they had teeth or could talk, that was it.  My son is six months old, has three teeth, and is exclusively breastfed.  Last week I went back to visit my dad and saw an old friend - and I got my first "You're still breastfeeding?"  Hehe.  I plan on letting him self wean, and if I get pregnant again I'd like to continue nursing and then afterwards tandem nurse if he's not weaned himself yet.  We'll see how it goes.  

Our culture, unfortunately does not support breastfeeding.  I made the mistake of joining this online moms group, and there are some nutballs on there!  This one woman actually said that breastfeeding moms do it for sexual gratification.   Then today I was watching a Discovery Health show - Surviving Motherhood - and the women on there said how there's no nutritional benefit after six months, and that the moms were only doing it for their pleasure.  What?

I can't believe doctors, either.  There is a lot of data to show that babies get the best immunity protection if nursed to two years at least.  I'm an ER nurse and had to stop a doctor from giving a certain prescription - he thought that if it had a relatively safe pregnancy class, it would be ok for a lactating mom.  And my own pediatrician doesn't know very much about breastfeeding at all.  She's supposed to be a pediatric expert, and yet doesn't know about the best way to feed a baby.

It's just that our society is focused on sex and consumerism.  So the formula companies are raking in the dough because moms think that they will be less desirable if they breastfeed.  But I digress ....