Babble

 You really are clueless, aren't you?

Don't let Anonymous get you down.

 First of all, note she has a 20 month old. My son was an angel at 20 months. Now he is 2 1/2 and yes, we resort to corporal punishment. My husband and I are both highly educated, professionals, Christians and humanitarians. We believe sometimes corporal punishment is the only way to deal with children who are too young and irrational to respond to reason (yet old enough to cause serious damage to themselves or others). Do not be ashamed or bullied. Your responsibility is to do what it takes to raise a human being who can function in society, and no one is a better judge of what discipline techniques are appropriate than you are. My husband and I were both spanked as children and we are both well adjusted, successful and happy. Frankly, spanking was the only form of discipline which ever caught my attention as a child, since I, like my son, was very wilfull and reckless. Ignore sanctimonious parents who are quick to judge. They doth protesteth too much. I suspect they are likley compensating for their own secret personal shortcomings. Most well adjusted parents would not feel compelled to condemn you so viciously.

- Boadicea

I am blown away by your articulate and well reasoned response. It is this kind of advocacy which is essential to intellectual discourse. Well done. I am persuaded.

Kids are supposed to be willful -- it's NOT a bad quality. Discipline means education! We're supposed to be guiding our children to help them develop an internal self control. As for spanking... and other punitive punishments-- it can only make the child feel bad about himself. They might learn not to do something mom doesn't like, but it's out of fear, not respect for her parent's ideas and expectations. Some experts think that spanking allows children to avoid guilty feeling for their bad behavior, letting the punishment (here, spanking) cancel out the undesirable action. Furthermore, I can't see how a parent can justify or separate this type of hitting from any other form. Might not the child think it ok to punish, spank, hit a younger sibling for "bad behavior." How would you explain? "No, only mommy/daddy can hit." In my mind, unless one is in therapy, the affect of bad parenting may go unnoticed.

 Corporal punishment the only way to respond to children who are too you or too irrational to understand?  YIKES!  There are so many ways that work but you have to be committed to finding them, not give in when your repertoire of strategies runs dry.  Hitting is a primitive response--understandable when up against it--but primitve all the same.  Several respondents to this subject came up with a great technique that worked wonders with my determined 2 1/2 old son: I held him until he was ready to cooperate, squirming away as he was and protesting mightily, and telling him that I would let go when he was in control and ready to cooperate.  A great pre-school director told me that when little ones are out of control, they need us to get them back in control. 

It is scary to be out of control (we adults know that, too!) and our holding them until they can calm down is reassurihng, believe me.  The day I was told that, I had 3 occasions to put it into practice, each time with more time in between, and by the end of the day and his nap, he was a sunny-dispositioned boy who rarely tried the trantrumming behavior again.  When he did, it was oh, so brief! 

I've had to do that in my job as an elementary school teacher with children as old as 7 who were out of control in the classroom and each time, that child has become my best friend!  I tell them I am keeping them safe until they can do that for themselves and they sense that and are reassured.

When you are down to hitting/spanking, know that you are in need of some help.  Yes, sure, many happy adults were spanked as adults, the secure love of their parents overriding this punishment, but that is a cop-out, sorry!  Read the Positive Discipline series of books on parenting and you will find a far better approach to raising children.  Or look into Active Parenting books; there is one directed specifically to Christian parents who often are put-off by discipline that doesn't include corporal punishment.

 

 

 

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Mother of teens, been there, done that.  Sometimes you do need to get the child's attention in a hurry, like when she runs toward the street or hurts another child.  A quick smack on the bottom does work.  It does not work if you yell, over use it or hit her on the face.  Usually it is best followed up with a long time out.  Using it for hysterics or tantrums tends to be counterproductive in the long run. 

 I have had better success with ignoring tantrums.  If they don't eat because they had a tantrum, well, let them be hungry.  If they are dirty because they pitched a fit on the sidewalk, oh well. If you are frequently late because of tantrums, try to think what you can do to prevent them.  A dawdling child may need more time to dress and eat.  A sleepy child may need an earlier bed time.  

If a two or three year old needs to be moved during a tantrum, just pick him up under your arm and let him flail.  Such "flying" tantrums are usually so funny that the child gives up quickly anyway. 

 Remember, the pattern you set now will determine how effective you are at disciplining them when they are teens.  Disciplining by letting them experience negative consequences and removing privileges continues to be effective as they grow older, spanking does not. If you are consistent with this approach when they are young, they will believe you when they are older. 

 I let my brilliant 12 year old decide whether or not to do her homework.  When she did not, her teachers gave her an exactly passing grade (she aced all the tests).  She complained, I backed the teachers up.  Now she does her homework. 

My 18 year old wanted to quit college after 3 weeks.  I gave her a choice, stay in school or find a job and an apartment by December 31.  She dropped a course, dug in and adjusted. 

I'm a grandmother, and I heard my daughter tell her 3 year old son the other day 'Why did you hit your sister? NO ONE hits you, mommy doesn't hit you, daddy doesn't hit you, so you shouldn't hit either.'  He said ' You're right mommy, I'm sorry'

Anonymous:

You say a great deal in your post.

1. You used the work "smack". Let's be real. You hit her. The behavior stops but it stops because you hitting her inflicts pain physically and hurt emotionally.

2. You don't smack her "on the regular".  I read that to mean that you try various methods of discipline and that sometimes involves hitting her.  If it is the case that you try various approaches and given that you ask for "advice", my advice would be to learn more about being consistent in parenting.  Trying various things often means nothing ends up being effective.

 3. You "finally had enough...". You reacted and I dare to say, you did so without thinking. You reacted emotionally. My certainly biased opinion is that disciplining children from the basis of emotional reaction can get parents into trouble. One of you two has to be the rational, thinking person and it's not going to be your 2 year old.

4. You "gave her a light smack...she cried for a whole minute, this worked".  Again, my own biased opinion..."smack" is a word people use to distance themselves from what they did. You hit her. She cried (for a whole minute and a half at that) because she was hurt physically and emotionally. And sure "it worked". If someone smacked you, you might just stop the behavior too.  I guess you have to ask yourself two things - 1) can I handle that differently (non-violently) the next time and still get her in the car seat? 2) Though the behavior stopped (perhaps a great short term outcome), what does it mean in the long run to hit my child?  My advice for what it's worth...go to a library, use their research database and find peer-reviewed, articles/research about corporal punishment and the possible outcomes for the child. In general you'll find that no one knows with 100% certainty what the outcomes are, but you'll get a better idea of what your method of punishment and intervention means for you and your child.

 5. Timeouts for 2 year olds - Research suggests that timeouts at this age our ineffective at bringing about positive outcomes. Again, do your homework (I think you are obligated to as as a parent) to find out what behaviorists, child psychologists, etc. recommend.

6. "When do they start remembering and realizing that they shouldn't repeat certain behaviors?". She's two years old. She has been on this planet for what...370 days give or take a few? I'll put on my I'm-Biased hat again and say that in my opinion, adults have a bad habit of adult-izing children.  Give your child some time to...a) lean how to express herself through a strong vocabulary and not just by writhing, crying, and kicking. You will need to find ways to help her with that. b) move through an extremely difficult phase of wanting more independence, not being able to articulately say "Mommy, give me more independence!", and not actually being ready for a great deal of independence. She's only two years old.

7. "I don't do it that often at all, so I don't' think she is repeating what I do." Of course she is. Why should she see your hitting any differently than a message that hitting is ok?  What I expect will happen over time, assuming you keep hitting her, is that she'll learn that you are bigger, stronger, and can inflict quite a bit of pain when you hit. Maybe that perception of you from her suits you fine. But maybe it would be better to help her find ways to express herself and manage her emotions without hitting. That means you'll need to find ways to express yourself and manage your emotions without hitting.

8. "Isn't she supposed to be able to follow instruction now?" Ok, I know there is an aversion to reading rude response, but...come on now! She's freakin' TWO!  I know the Terrible Twos phrase might be a little cliche, but it is certainly more reality than myth.

  i give you props for speaking your mind truthfully.  one more addition: it's illegal in several european countries to hit a child.  it's important to realize that children are their own beings and therefor of course aren't going to act as you'd like them to.  when the issue becomes a controlling argument and physical violence is used, we are by no means meeting our ends with a means worth inheriting/learning.  it's tough to raise children and i don't believe any of us here are saints.  i've hit my children as well, though there should be absolutely no question if that is the correct thing to do.  i see several replies speaking about it as if it's no big thing to be violent with a child.  is it ok to be violent with an adult.  as far as other resolutions instead of spanking, check out mothering magazine's articles about other options.  for me, the book Nonviolent Communication by Rosenberg has helped immensely. 

Wow. All the responses have been amazing in their own way. I want to thank everyone on this borad for giving me their own little pieces of advice. While some have been a bit on the offensive side I have taken it all with a grain of salt.  While I know (and it's evident) that I am not the perfect parent, I sure as heck am trying my hardest. I love my child more than anything on this earth, and I want nothing more than to have a trusting, nurturing, and loving relationship with her from now through adulthood. My intention is and was to get some useful tips and examples of what works for other parents that have been through the "terrible two" stage. I have gained a lot of insight and once again, just wanted to say- thanks.

Hello,

My kids are now 7 and 9.  I have "hit" them a couple times when they were toddlers.  I did not do it out of anger, make a habit of it, and did not do it hard.  I can assure you that it hurt a lot less than any of the other bumps they had gotten throughout the day.  Did it affect them long term?  No - they do not even remember it.  Did it get them to focus and stop their harmful behavior? Yes.  Would I do it again?  You bet.  I do not feel that it should be used as a norm for punishment.   You know the difference between getting their attention and abuse.   If you or someone else out there feels like do not have a handle on the issue and it is a problem, please seek some help.  People of value to you won't judge, they want to help.

Don't get discouraged.  The timeframe that this type of discipline is needed is not that long.  You will soon be surprised that your child has developed more reasoning and will respond to the loss of privledges (just make sure to follow through!).  Your main job is to keep your child safe.  If it means a tap so that you can get her seatbelt on, I think she can handle it.  

Motherhood is not a competition.  The children of the people who condemn you will most likely lack compassion and empathy for others   - which is such an integral part of a person's character.   Thanks for bravely putting the question out there and not assuming that you know everything and your way is the only one that is right.  Your child seems to have an advantage already. 

-Lisa

First, of all, I am not here to criticize, but perhaps offer another idea behind why your child may not want to be "Strapped In".  Each of my three boys had the same issue when it came to being strapped in and primarily it was a comfort issue, either the straps were too tight, constricting, something was pinching or poking them or as plane as can be, they just do not like to be restricted in any sense of the matter, just imagine if someone wanted to slap you in a chair and tie you down, how would you react?  As most people have indicated, patience and the ability to withstand a few minutes of crying is all that it takes, resorting to physical punishment at this time is not appropriate and i'm not saying there are times when it is not appropriate, because there are times that a swat on the bottom or even a tap on the mouth is not warranted.  They will learn, but calmly speaking to your child and attempting to find a solution to their distress or improper behavior is the first line of defense.

Our boys are now 12, 7 and 2 and we not only have their respect, but love and trust and we shaer the same with them.

"I have told her repeatedly not to hit mommy, and that it is not acceptable."

Dear Mommy,

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Do not hit me. It is not acceptable.

Wow! Tracey you must be the mother of the year! I would like to know how you dicipline your child/ren. I have a feeling that your children are the ones that are running wild through stores, pulling displays and shelved items down, resulting in a huge mess and disrupting all those around you. You are supposed to be a guide for your children and there are times that they do need to be punished. That is the reason we have so many out of control children running wild. I applaud the woman who originally posted. If people were more strict and consistent with diciplining their children, things would be a lot better and certinally nicer. I was diciplined when I was growing up, and do not under any circumstances condone excessive dicipline or "beatings", but you absolutley must be the guide to bring up your chil/ren to be moral upstanding people with a good understanding of ethcis.

 

you need to keep up the good work. our generation is falling apart because of parents that are afraid to smack their children anymore. Look this whole "dont spank your children" phase is no more than 30 years old, and look what has happened in the last 30 years? I spank my children, (Yes I am a Christian). Now a smack on the face I don't totally agree with, but you did what works, Why is not hitting your kids the right way but they grow up to be ruthless children with no morals, but mine who have grown up and become wonderful grownups with great morals and a sufficent future, whom I spanked, are the ones that are poor and abused? Its all very upsidown, continue to use the way you want to disipline your children, and don't give a second thought to what anyone else thinks, its your child, not theirs, you do what you think is right girl!

Wow, lots of response.

I don't think 24 months is old enough to expect obedience. So when my son acted like that at 24 months (he's almost 5 now), I wouldn't have given him a slap, or a time-out, or taken away a toy, or anything like that. Real punishment at that age was reserved for things which were dangerous to the kid or violent to someone else. You get a time-out for playing with the gas heater.

For disobedience, I took advantage of the fact that I'm a hell of a lot bigger and stronger than the kid. I didn't NEED obedience because I could pick him up, throw him over my shoulder and put him where he needed to be. I don't mean it to be punishment as such, but as a side effect it does make an impression. If the kid's screaming their head off, then let them scream. If the screaming is bothering other people around, move the kid somewhere where it doesn't bother people. If the screaming is making ME crazy, then put me and the kid in a situation (like separate rooms, or them strapped into their car seat while I stretch outside the car) where I can get un-crazy before I hurt the kid.

So, my answer is less about the slapping (although I think it's a really bad idea). It's more about when any kind of punishment is appropriate. Don't expect your kid to be obedient at this age. You're in charge whether they obey or not. Don't take her BS, but don't punish her for it either.

(Now that my kid's 5 I have a box in my office chock full of things I've taken away because he wouldn't clean up when asked, or whatever.)