Babble

Thanks for backing me up, heysway... you pretty much summed it up for me.

heysway:

I ignored the posts previous to mine that were filled with the holier than thou attitudes. As far as I could tell you weren't asking anyone what their opinion of giving their kids a smack was, but you were looking for ideas on how other parents dealt with the same situation. Many of these posters are either very young or very old, because only they seem to need to put someone else down to make themselves feel better. No one gives a rats ass how anonymous treats her friends, this issue isn't "dicey" you never said you beat your kid on a regular basis. You never said you gave an open handed, put all your weight behind it smack. What would have been helpful would have been if they had posted their advice "Go tobabycenter.comthey have great advice about todder development and how to discipline. Good luck." and left it at that, When Tracy wrote "The only thing more insulting than being smacked in the face is being spat on" Well no shit Sherlock. Why didn't you just say, I just ignore the behavior and stick her ass in the car seat and let her bitch? Or "When I feel like my only solution is to smack her, I put her in her room, shut/lock the door and listen to music until I calm down." I especially despise folks that don’t have the nads to leave their real name, or email/website. I used to post anonymously too, but I wouldn’t do a “I am better than you post” and then run away. If I couldn’t add something constructive I wouldn’t bother.

 

 

You say a great deal in your post.

1. You used the work "smack". Let's be real. You hit her. The behavior stops but it stops because you hitting her inflicts pain physically and hurt emotionally.

2. You don't smack her "on the regular".  I read that to mean that you try various methods of discipline and that sometimes involves hitting her.  If it is the case that you try various approaches and given that you ask for "advice", my advice would be to learn more about being consistent in parenting.  Trying various things often means nothing ends up being effective.

 3. You "finally had enough...". You reacted and I dare to say, you did so without thinking. You reacted emotionally. My certainly biased opinion is that disciplining children from the basis of emotional reaction can get parents into trouble. One of you two has to be the rational, thinking person and it's not going to be your 2 year old.

4. You "gave her a light smack...she cried for a whole minute, this worked".  Again, my own biased opinion..."smack" is a word people use to distance themselves from what they did. You hit her. She cried (for a whole minute and a half at that) because she was hurt physically and emotionally. And sure "it worked". If someone smacked you, you might just stop the behavior too.  I guess you have to ask yourself two things - 1) can I handle that differently (non-violently) the next time and still get her in the car seat? 2) Though the behavior stopped (perhaps a great short term outcome), what does it mean in the long run to hit my child?  My advice for what it's worth...go to a library, use their research database and find peer-reviewed, articles/research about corporal punishment and the possible outcomes for the child. In general you'll find that no one knows with 100% certainty what the outcomes are, but you'll get a better idea of what your method of punishment and intervention means for you and your child.

 5. Timeouts for 2 year olds - Research suggests that timeouts at this age our ineffective at bringing about positive outcomes. Again, do your homework (I think you are obligated to as as a parent) to find out what behaviorists, child psychologists, etc. recommend.

6. "When do they start remembering and realizing that they shouldn't repeat certain behaviors?". She's two years old. She has been on this planet for what...370 days give or take a few? I'll put on my I'm-Biased hat again and say that in my opinion, adults have a bad habit of adult-izing children.  Give your child some time to...a) lean how to express herself through a strong vocabulary and not just by writhing, crying, and kicking. You will need to find ways to help her with that. b) move through an extremely difficult phase of wanting more independence, not being able to articulately say "Mommy, give me more independence!", and not actually being ready for a great deal of independence. She's only two years old.

7. "I don't do it that often at all, so I don't' think she is repeating what I do." Of course she is. Why should she see your hitting any differently than a message that hitting is ok?  What I expect will happen over time, assuming you keep hitting her, is that she'll learn that you are bigger, stronger, and can inflict quite a bit of pain when you hit. Maybe that perception of you from her suits you fine. But maybe it would be better to help her find ways to express herself and manage her emotions without hitting. That means you'll need to find ways to express yourself and manage your emotions without hitting.

8. "Isn't she supposed to be able to follow instruction now?" Ok, I know there is an aversion to reading rude response, but...come on now! She's freakin' TWO!  I know the Terrible Twos phrase might be a little cliche, but it is certainly more reality than myth.

 

 Apparently not hitting a child and not approving of people who do is a no-no in this thread. I'm calling bullshit on bullshit. I'm also not here to please anybody else. And yes, I'm judgemental on this issue. Since when is it good to pat somebody on the back for hitting a child? Is this the world we live in?

Let me tell you something about the generation or two ahead of ours who beat/smacked/hit/spanked, however you want to say it, their kids. I work in hospice and I wish I had a dollar for every elderly patient I meet who has nobody to care for them.  Oh they have kids, but they've all moved away and don't want to be bothered with taking care of their parents. On the face of it you might say their kids are jerks, but if you could be privy to some of the conversations that I have, you'd know that those elderly alienated their kids YEARS ago. "Smacking" or whatever you want to call it will make your kids hate your guts.

I'm a social worker who has counseled in prisons, the mentally ill, HIV/Aids patients, worked on death row cases, and now hospice. I have heard TONS of stories of abuse. It all begins with a parent losing control.

If kissing somebody's ass for hitting their kids is ok, then I don't give a shit about pleasing some of the people in this thread.

The OP admitted feeling guilty and she apparently came here to get her wounds licked so she could feel ok again about herself. She says she "smacked" her kid, but how do we know that's what it was? Again, if I want to advocate for anybody here it's the poor little 2 year old, not the mom who wants to complain when everybody doesn't play nice about her hitting her kid.

Some of the atttitudes in this thread are why there is so much trouble in school today. Get yourselves together and quit whining about semantics and internet etiquette. 

No, I'm not perfect and I'm sure my son will have his complaints, but if I do something like hit him, I hope my husband would snatch a knot in me and make me feel ashamed.

Some people have no sense of shame or dignity and this is why bullshit goes unchecked in our culture. Hell yes, I'm judgemental. It's a moral issue for crying out loud. At least I believe and stand by something. 

As for not leaving personal info and someone accusing me of running away, it has nothing to do with that. This is the internet. I'm not stupid enough to leave my personal info for every e-freak in the world to have access to. Again, this is common sense. 

Another thing that I find works but not all the time, is the "I am going to count to 3, and then if you can't do xyz, I will 1)put you in your room 2)do it for you (put on the coat, put you into the car seat etc)". I think consistency is the key, I am not always good at it, but I keep trying.

I am not sure who you are trying to convince, you seem to be projecting a lot, and perhaps what you say about not hitting you child isn't as true as you claim. I don't believe anyone is kissing anyone’s ass, or saying that hitting a child is ok. Were you hit as a child is that why you are being so venomous? I find it particularly funny that you claim that the people that disagree with you are promoting abusing children and are the reason our schools are falling to shit. As for being a social worker? Well I worked with plenty of social workers and psychiatrists when I was the program supervisor in a group home for emotionally disturbed children. They never attacked the parent, but tried to give them other options, suggestions, and ways of dealing with situations. I know fully well how fucked up kids mainly come from fucked up parenting. But attacking someone does nothing but put a wall between you and the person you are trying to help.As for leaving personal info, I don't think I said to put your home phone and address online, a simple name shows at least a bit of character.

Perhaps you are just having a bad day and need to take it out on someone, and if you choose to use the internet and abuse strangers instead of going home and taking it out on your child I say Bravo!

 You're wrong on all counts, but by all means, continue to cozy up and make yourself feel important by being accepted on the internet. I can see how much it matters to you. I feel I've said all there is to say and my presence here is just giving you and the OP something else to hate on and focus on rather than your own problems. So, as a favor to your jobs and children, I will take the distraction of my honesty away from you. Carry on. 

This Washington Post article - Take My Kids Please - might be of use to the original poster.

 You may have to register/be-logged-in to view it.

Isn't this why schools are as fucked up as they are now? If a parent smacks/spanks their kid these days, it's automatically child abuse! The OP was honest by coming on this board and seeking advice, because she didn't want to resort to smacing her kid again, not because she needed justification or wounds licked. Get a grip!

Research suggests that 90% of parents have used corporal punishment at least once. 

Before people go off on a tangent about the alleged lack of spanking and subsequent decline of schools, society, and broadcast tv programming, they should consider that spanking is certainly more common than not.

For those two or three people who think shaming is the way to correct behavior-- think again. All it does is make people feel lousy about themselves, and defensive for their actions. Does a parent, or for that matter anyone who feels crappy about themselves treat others better or worse? If someone having parenting trouble went to a therapist, would it be wise to shame the parent into changing? I can't imagine that this would be productive. Listening is key. This doesn't mean that one defends, or endorses another parent's choices. I suggest reading Hiam Ginot's, Between Parent and Child and any of the Faber, Mazlish books such as Liberated Parents, Liberated Children.

Thanks for the reading suggestions. Speaking of books, has anyne read the book written by the Super Nanny, Jo Frost?

maybe instead of shaming the parents, we should try spanking them.

The positive discipline books, will hopefully help parents figure out a fair way to treat their children... you can even apply the principles to dealings with adults. Shaming, hitting and sarcasm don't fit in, however there is empathy and forgiveness. If one only focuses on there errors of the past, there's not much hope, or room to grow. It seems that people view parenting as intuitive-- no skills required. I know only a few people who actually take parenting classes, and presumably this is the most important job of our lives. In some cases, people just don't have the emotional resources-- I certainly didn't initially. It's easy to say that they should get their shit together, but in extreme cases, such as one parent, low-income, or inner city families, they may have no idea how to research parenting. What if these parents smacked their kids once in a while, but loved the shit out of them and supported them emotionally? There are a million ways to parent. There was an article in the Bad Parent category about a mom losing her temper with her 9 month old. I didn't see much, if any condemnation about yelling and screaming at their children. I realize hitting not the way to go, but screaming, shaming, criticizing, empty threats to leave their children, teasing, labeling, etc. will leave some pretty bad emotional scars-- to me, far more than one, unsure smack.

 Wow. I actuall y had time to read this thread and am surprised. I have spanked my daughter and quite frankly will probably do it again. A 2 year old does not understand "Do it by the count of 3 or I will do it for you." I've tried. Both children (Sidenote - 3yo is worse than a 2yo.) Can  you imagine waling passed a mini van, watching me buckle a straight-as-a-board 2yo in to a 5 point car seat as she's scremaing bloody murder? What woul dyou think of me (especially the overly criticall social worker above in teh column) Your first thougt would be: Boy - she has no control over her child. I'm a mother and I work full time. Who has the strength and energy to deal with that crap on a daily basis? So, a quick elbow to the stomach to bend her enough to tighten the belt and all is well.  I'm sure it doesn't tickle her, but it stops her for a quick miniute. She cries, I huff. And people think I'm a mean mommy.  What about the theory that my child could be possessed by the devil.  Yeah. I'm going with that theory.

Ha! This is the first time I actually really LOL at a reply to my original post! Thanks for the laugh... I needed it.

Anonymous:

 Wow. I actuall y had time to read this thread and am surprised. I have spanked my daughter and quite frankly will probably do it again. A 2 year old does not understand "Do it by the count of 3 or I will do it for you." I've tried. Both children (Sidenote - 3yo is worse than a 2yo.) Can  you imagine waling passed a mini van, watching me buckle a straight-as-a-board 2yo in to a 5 point car seat as she's scremaing bloody murder? What woul dyou think of me (especially the overly criticall social worker above in teh column) Your first thougt would be: Boy - she has no control over her child. I'm a mother and I work full time. Who has the strength and energy to deal with that crap on a daily basis? So, a quick elbow to the stomach to bend her enough to tighten the belt and all is well.  I'm sure it doesn't tickle her, but it stops her for a quick miniute. She cries, I huff. And people think I'm a mean mommy.  What about the theory that my child could be possessed by the devil.  Yeah. I'm going with that theory.