Babble

This purpose of this thread is two-fold: (1) it's a place where we will link to articles, blog posts, and other writings about Babble or parenting-related subjects; and (2) its a place where we hope to discuss what we are trying to do with this magazine and community, and get your feedback.

To start things off, here's a link to an article in CBC.CA entitled "the Birth of Cool: Alternadad and the culture of hipster parenting."

The writer, Andre Mayer, says, "Babble.com and many of the trendy new parenting tomes are characterized by sarcasm and a nauseating self-regard."

I disagree with his assessment -- (Rufus, co-publisher of Babble writing here) -- but before i explain why let me quote his comments at greater length:

"The trouble with Babble’s articles is that many seem disrespectful — in some cases disdainful — of children.

"One of the most insufferable features is a blog by Steve Almond, a fiction writer who refuses to let parenthood neutralize his “edginess.” The name of the blog, Baby Daddy, is a sardonic reference to a reluctant father. (The most famous baby daddy: Kevin Federline.) In a post about child names, Almond writes that his daughter is “nearly three months old and we still don’t have any kind of consistent name for the little f---er.” Classy, Steve. One blog on the site asks readers to post links of kids crying. I wonder: is it healthy to revel in a child’s misery? Babble has such a craving for snarky commentary that it even invites don’t-wannabe-parents to weigh in on child rearing. In “Notes from a Drunk Aunt,” Lisa Gabriele writes about the freedom of not having to be someone’s role model. What moral are we, as parents, supposed to glean from that?

"Many Babble writers simply gripe about not getting the kind of kid they wanted. Madeline Holler wishes her second child was as clever as her first; AM Homes wishes her girl was a boy. Elisha Cooper recounts the miseries of bottle-feeding his daughter, while Erin Cressida Wilson recounts the miseries of breastfeeding her son. Many of these writers dream up elaborate cruelties for their little sprogs, before acknowledging — reluctantly — that they’re too naive and defenceless to justify such loathing.

"Pollack and his ilk have undertaken a dubious task: to make parenting seem cool. Alas, there’s nothing cool about arriving at a party in a shirt flecked with milky drool. Parenting advice is a lot more useful when it shrugs off the hipster yoke and embraces child rearing as the messy, demanding yet enriching job that it is."

You won't be suprised to hear that my view is quite different from Mr. Mayers. We created Babble because we thought too few people felt comfortable telling the truth about the experience of being a parent. Why don't parents feel comfortable speaking frankly about their experience? Because our culture worships children (in an excessive, unhealthy way in my opinion) , and its therefore heretical to say anything that could be perceived to insinuate, even for a moment, that having children isn't the most blessed magical thing that you have ever done or considered doing in your life. If you do describe some of your frustrations or humbling moments, people like Mr. Mayers will describe you as ungrateful -- you will be punished for vioilating the cultural religion. What's wrong with describing a challenging breastfeeding experience? What's wrong with AM Homes describing her early disappointment about getting a girl when she wanted a boy? Does Mayers really want to prohibit statements like these? Does he really believe that no other parents have such experiences? If he read those pieces all the way through, i think it should be pretty clear to him that those writers love their children and are every bit as humble before the experience of parenthood as he is.

We at Babble are not at all into the "hipster parent" schtick, although there is some demographic truth to the characterization. There is a generation of young parents --including many of us -- who like rock and roll, who don't wear ties and jackets, and who have chosen not to completely surrender their social lives and cultural engagement because they have children. It does not follow, however, that they are "desperate to be cool" or hip or what have you. It's possible to be a 40 year old father of two who looks like a "grup" (or not that dissimilar from many 26 year olds out there) who has nonetheless matured in the last 14 years. This is a mistake journalists are making -- assuming that parents are either (a) yuppies who have completely surrendered their interest in music and wear their cell phones on belt clips (not that there is anything wrong with that), or (b) parent hipsters who are desperately trying to remain cool and in denial about their new responsbilities.

Babble aspires to communicate the range of parenting experiences out there, and as a result there is a huge range of content -- both in terms of subject and tone -- on the site. The common thread is honesty -- we are attempting to tell it straight here, even if it violates the unspoken rules regarding how we talk about childhood. There is a real gap between the experience of parents and the cliches people utter every day in polite society -- apparently Mayers would like that gap to remain. This article quanitifies that gap in an interesting way. <http://www.babble.com/misc/preview/pressrelease.html>

Ironically our mission with Babble content is nicely summarized in Mayers's last sentence -- we want to "embrace child rearing as the messy, demanding yet enriching job that it is." Frankly, that sounds like a line from our press release. <http://www.babble.com/misc/preview/pressrelease.html>

What do others think? Let us know ...
 

I can see how Mayer reaches his conclusions, but he seems to be selectively reading Babble to build his case.  There are articles here I don't care for, and I have debated some writers about issues of style, but for the most part, I see Babble writers as folks facing the bizarre reality of being responsible for young lives by arming themselves with a bit of humor and bemusement.  It beats heavy medication and daily therapy visits.

True, the front-page articles can seem a bit harsh, but I think to really understand Babble you need to look at the Boards -- at us folks who aren't being paid, who love our kids as well as ourselves, and who like spending time here.
 

I agree with Peter (which makes sense, because I think he is the only person who spends more time here than I do) in that the "real" tone of Babble can be found on the boards.  Sure, the blog posts and feature articles are front and center, but I think those things are more to create the dialogue found on the boards.

I had a child, I didn't get a lobotomy.  Of course, it helps that I wasn't all that hip to begin with.  I'm still just as weird and nerdy as I ever was, and I'm absolutely certain my baby will grow up to be even weirder and possibly nerdier.

The number one thing that parenthood has taught me (so far) is that people are crazily judgemental about Every. Single. Thing. you do as a parent.  And they feel the need to tell you about it.  That's why that article pisses me off a bit - if we're all being honest and sharing our experiences, how is that wrong?  Parenthood sucks sometimes.  Why not talk about it?  I mean, how is it bad to share your legitimate feelings about your own unique experience?  What a derriere-chapeau.

Rufus - realizing that I may be shitting where I eat, but the "Great Alternadad Controversy" or whatever it's been deemed is puerile and self-defeating, a boring reminder of the flamewars that so plague many of the parenting blogs out there. The only controversy here is that Babble would choose to weigh in on the side of one writer, and seemingly forget that both writers "love their children and are every bit as humble before the experience of parenthood" and - just as important - have different tales to tell. If the site's goal is to communicate the range of parenting experiences, then by all means Babble should do so; Ada's post was frankly unnecessary, and disheartening.

Hey Jason -- I agree that Babble should be broadminded and inclusive of all parenting perspectives, including Neal's. That was our intention in publishing his rebuttal. There are those who like his book, those who don't, and those who don't care, and Babble intends to be place for all three camps and any number of others.

 I do think that the "alterna-parent" controversy has created a rather silly stereotype -- as are most all stereotypes -- of parents living in cities. The argument that interests me is not about one writer or one book, but rather a demographic shift many of us are participating in, and perceptions of new parenting styles. My personal opinion is that Neal's book has the unintented effect of reinforcing a somewhat limiting stereotype of "the hipster parent." I think that was one of Ada's points in her editor's note. That's not to say that the book is not an entertaining depiction of one person's experience.

Thanks for you feedback ... i think you will find in the coming months a pretty broad range of viewpoints and experiences represented in the pages of Babble.

Rufus




 

The whole thing made me feel like a dork, because from all the replies, it seemed like I'm supposed to know who Lisa Carver is (apart from being the author of the essay).  I don't.

Hi Rufus -

Devoted Babble reader and occasional commenter here. In theory, I love what Babble purports to be about. I came here looking for fresh perspectives from other new parents, and a more honest, down-to-earth, and inclusive viewpoint than I might find on other parenting sites. I have to say, though, that I'm not sure I agree with you about the "huge range of content -- both in terms of subject and tone" that can be found on Babble. Truth be told, I sometimes feel that Babble has an extremely homogenous voice, as a site, and that, like Neal's book, it unwittingly reinforces some of those silly hipster parent stereotypes.

It troubles me that each of the hipster-parenting pieces in the mainstream media has triggered a backlash on Babble, and that the "debate" (about what, I'm not exactly sure) never seems to rise above the level of "I wear Chucks and you can't make me wear Dockers." It seems strained and superficial. Why would these trailblazing "new urban parents," the harbingers of a demographic shift and a new parenting style, need to be so defensive about their choices?

I want to like Babble more than I do. I want to love it. I firmly believe it was created for parents like me. I came here looking for fresh, interesting voices, and I've found enough to make me want to stick around. But there's something off-putting and surprisingly exclusionary about the tone of the writing here. I feel like Babble is becoming the cool kids' table for parents -- and not in the good way -- and heaven help me if I admit to a passing interest in something as pedestrian as (let's say) scrapbooking. The last thing any parent needs is to feel even more alienated. And I say this as someone in your prime demographic.

When it comes to viewpoints, I say the broader, the better. I look forward to seeing more.

Hey Squawks --

Thanks for your feedback. It's certainly our intention to provide a breadth of perspectives here, and focus on the commonality of the parenting experience rather than petty differences. Here are a few of my favorite pieces, all of which, i think, accomplish this:

John Freeman on his desire for children, not always shared by his grilfriends.

Walter Kirn on confronting his children's fears on his ranch in Montana.

Lisa Gabriel on the wisdom of the drunk aunt.

Kevin Keck on his (rather humorous) misgivings about having twin daughters.

Biz Mitchell on recent studies about happiness and procreation.

AM Homes on her fear of having a daughter.

Jennifer Baumgardner on the challenges and joy of early parenting.

Though most of our team is more likely to be wearing chucks than dockers, as you say, in my (admittedly biased) opinion very little of what we publish here is driven by this distinction. We created Babble because we couldn't find any other parenting magazine that spoke candidly about this very powerful human experience, and this has nothing to do with personal style (see our recently posted mission statement here).

Having said that, Babble is a work in progress and we appreciate your feedback, the more specific the better. If there are specific viewpoints or issues or stories that we should be reporting, please let us know. We also want Babble to be practical guide ... we will be offering quite a bit more sevice features in the coming weeks, and would love any input on practical matters we should cover.

-- Rufus
 

I just discovered this website 10 minutes ago and so far I want to say...."FINALLY!!"  I found a website where I can read about and share with others MY reality of parenting. I really wish you all would leave out the labels and just allow people to be honest and read about others honesty. All I know is I don't want to be a typical "stay at home Mom" .  I don't like any of the parenting magazines or books available. They give me anxiety and I hate trying to make "Mommy friends" I feel like I don't fit in. So far this website is speaking to me and I can't wait to read on! Thanks, Courtney Ellis, Colorado

It's two in the morning and I'm not sure if I didn't get Mayer's article because I'm dead tired or because it didn't make a lick of sense.  "quiet stoicism?"  Is someone really championing that as a parenting technique, because I can tell you it doesn't work.  That's how my parents raised me and that's how I became an asshole "hipster" parent who wore black maternity clothes, the kind that David Brooks loves so much.  Speaking of which, Brooks is why I'm here looking around the site, love love loving Almond's blog, and getting my hooks into this site by responding to the urban parent bashing somewhat incoherently.  I have never read anything so true and so tender as Almond's musings on his daughter.  That's probably not what he was going for, but I don't see how anyone can't see how much he loves his kid.  My husband and I went through some whacko apt renovation while I was on bedrest with my son and we were constantly feeling like failures as parents because we couldn't get it together to match up to most of the well-intentioned blathering on the free parenting magazines that somehow started finding us.  We are not hipsters, I don't know what the f that means, but we are both designers and believe in design and obsess about materialism in our profession, so we sometimes freaked out about incredibly stupid things in the beginning, (and still do) but there is no doubt that we love every.freaking. minute of being around our son, our messy, demanding, enriching boy.  As for breadth of view, what I've seen so far on babble is honest and uncensored.  If there's something you want to share to diversify the general sentiment here, like how SUV's are awesome and cardigans make the world go round (we drive our suv with cardigans on, don't get me wrong), speak up like you're doing.