Babble

I was alerted that Babble is using images without permission. I want to be assured that as a registered user of Babble and a member of Flickr as well as other photo websites, you will not be  taking my photos without my permission.  

I agree with these concerns and would like to see the issue addressed in a broader and more up-front manner.  Certainly, staff at Babble have publicly responded to some particular cases, but the reality of this being an ongoing issue of incomplete staff training, poor oversight, or inadequate dissemination of corporate policy is abundantly clear.

I'd like to see it addressed as a feature or column, preferably one posted prominently on the home page of the site.  Please demonstrate your accountability for these offenses to all of your readers, not just those who have been affected directly. 

Hey folks --

Rufus Griscom, CEO Of Nerve Media here.

This is the history: Nerve Media has always had a policy of using Flickr photos ONLY with permission from the photographer, and with credit given to the photographer. When we first launched Babble a large portion of the photographs that accompanied articles were from Flickr, and in every case the photographer gave us permission prior to the posting (incidentally about 95% of people we ask have historically been happy to give us permission).

In the last week it has come to our attention that a new member of the photo department recently pulled photos that had marked "public" without asking for permission. She believed, after reading the Flickr "creative commons" license terms, that it was okay to do so because she thought it fell under non-commercial use.

This was a huge error -- we were very upset about this, and as soon as it we learned about it we took down all such photos. We were contacted by, I think, 3 photographers who had this problem (one of whom posted about it on Flickr) and in every case we apologized profusely and made sure there photo was removed immediately. The reports of a long history of intentional use of private photos is entirely inaccurate -- all photos posted prior to arrival of this employee were posted with permission.

The Babble team is comprised of writers, photographers, and young parents, and we are as a rule very concerned about both the privacy of families and the rights of content creators. Alisa and I (co-publishers of Babble) have our family photos on flickr --  http://www.flickr.com/photos/declan/ -- and we would be equally upset if we found our photos used commercially without clearance ... this was a major screw up, and you can be confident that it will not happen again.

Sincerely,

Rufus

p.s. If anyone has any concerns about these incidents feel free to e-mail me directly at rufus@babble.com.

It seems to me you've definitely pissed some people off.

I wonder if you have developed a creative work around to resolve this using images without permission?

Have you thought about asking users to provide images?

I'm just trying to think proactively here for your sake because I don't want this to happen to photographs of my kids. And I'm sure you feel the same way about your own photographs.

 i have a problem with a ceo that doesnt know the difference between THERE and THEIR

 

 <i>The reports of a long history of intentional use of private photos is entirely inaccurate -- all photos posted prior to arrival of this employee were posted with permission.</i>

Which is why apparently, you had to settle a lawsuit in the spring for an image used last December, right? It seems to me, after that little incident, better safeguards and training for those  working on obtaining photos would be in order. It's that fact, which you continue to try and obfuscate with untrue statements such as the above that has everyone calling bullshit. Seriously, with $3 mil+ in revenue, can you guys not hire a PR person?

And how about all the images you use to decorate Strollerderby posts? Are those used with permission?
 

i'm sure he knows the difference. he's stressed and has likely had a bad day. give the guy a break.

Hey folks --

Getting images for Babble is actually quite easy. Our standard practice is either to buy photos from stock photography sites -- many of the photos you see on Babble are stock -- or ask Flickr users who have marked their photos "public" for permission to use them with credit. As I said above, the vast majority of people whom we contact give us permission to use their photographs. The problem in recent weeks occurred not because we were trying to cut corners but because we had an internal misunderstanding. There is no question that at the end of the day I take the blame for that -- we clearly failed to communicate photo usage policy to the team with adequate clarity.

With regard to the "settlement" described above, we had an agreement in place with a photographer to use an image, and she was surprised to see the small version of the image, which appears in the archives throughout the site, in more than one location. This is how our website (and most websites) work, but apparently this wasn't clearly enough explained in the agreement. As soon as she pointed it out, we took her photograph down. She had a friend of hers who was a lawyer send us threatening letters. We agreed to pay something like an extra $100 because she had a fair point -- the exact nature of the usage should have been agreed upon in advance.

We have indeed had a meeting with all editors and designers to make sure there is no confusion about our policies. We are also reviewing the usage of photos in the blogs to make sure that absolutely all usage is by the book. Though the vast majority of blogs out there are somewhat informal with their photo usage (most blogs don't have explicit rights for the use of every single photo), we realize that the sensible thing to do is to submit ourselves to the strictest standards available.

And yes, thank you for catching my there / their slip. I dashed that note off quickly, but it's nice to know Babble readers / visitors are on the ball.

I am happy to address any other questions or concerns if you have them.

best, Rufus

 

 

Rufus:

can you point to any photos on Babble obtained with consent from flickr where the photographer was given credit? I can't recall ever seeing a photo accompanying a feature story given a separate photo credit. I have always assumed that those photographs were taken by the author, of the author's own children. Has that been an incorrect assumption?
 

they were removed, obviously.

and i'd guess that you assumed wrong.

Thank you for your post above.

I was incorrect -- apparently the policy has been to provide photo credits to professional photographers but not for stock photography sites, publicity photos, and Flickr photographers who give us permission. Your assumption that the author of our articles took the photo is not correct, though I do think its a good idea to encourage that in cases where writers like to take photos.

Here are a couple examples of attributions to professional photographers:

http://www.babble.com/content/articles/features/personalessays/keck/doubleyourpanic/index3.aspx

http://www.babble.com/content/articles/features/personalessays/wilson/succor/

I just had a meeting with our lead designer and two photo staffers, and starting today every photograph from a flickr photographer who has given us permission, stock photo agency, and professional photographer will be clearly attributed. We are also going to work on doing this retroactively. I would like to reiterate that though I was wrong about the credit policy, we have gone through all our archives, and every photo on babble.com that appears next to an article was obtained with permission (we took down those that were not as soon as we learned about it).

best, Rufus

 

 

 

see here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14197542@N05/

oh my underpants, people! enough already!

you should get this upset about the war in iraq or global warming. i've been following this quagmire all day and it started out annoying, became hilarious, and now (like the online opposite of the comedy of andy kaufman) has become annoying again.

yawnskies.
 

 It's here now:

 

http://babblesteals.blogspot.com 

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