Strollerderby

The epidural is NOT without risk to both mother and baby.  Spinal headaches (a miserable headache that can't be treated by any pain killer) are the first hideous side effect that comes to mind.  Death is another.  Lethargy on the part of the baby that can lead to trouble breastfeeding, among other things.

I am so fucking sick of "experts" trying to tell me what to do.  I did natural (no drugs, vaginal) labor TWICE.  The first time I had an instinct to protect myself and my baby from unnecessary drugs, but the second time, I had EXPERIENCE.  No one questioned me, either time.

I'd be really interested in hearing what pharmaceutical companies these "experts" are funded by.  Because the only people who profit from widespread use of pharmaceuticals are pharmaceutical companies.  Shut up and let me give birth my way.  And quit telling first time moms that they "can't do it" - they can.  Women have done it for eons without drugs.  You can too.  And it IS safer for you AND the baby.  

<i>Unless this study is going to encourage health insurance companies not to play games over the rights of a woman to have an epidural (which, believe me, they will challenge - when the only anesthesiologist on call doesn't take your insurance, they don't have to pay the doctor, despite your NEED for that needle), what purpose does this serve? </i>

My insurance paid for my natural childbirth classes. If it can be shown that the classes don't actually do anything, then insurance shouldn't be paying for them. It's called evidence-based medicine, and it will be a big factor in national health care.

"Unless this study is going to encourage health insurance companies not to play games over the rights of a woman to have an epidural (which, believe me, they will challenge - when the only anesthesiologist on call doesn't take your insurance, they don't have to pay the doctor, despite your NEED for that needle), what purpose does this serve? "

My unmedicated childbirth classes were paid for by insurance. If it can be shown that they have no effect, they shouldn't be paying. This is what Obama's "evidence-based medicine" is all about.

Different people have different pain threshholds, and pain itself - whether that of labor or of something else - is a uniquely subjective experience. Certainly the medical profession is (slowly) figuring this out in treatment of chronic pain conditions.

I wish this "gray" view of pain could enter into the polarized, black-and-white debates over epidural use vs. unmedicated childbirth. There should be no shaming or finger-pointing from either side. Me, I loved my epidural. (And it did the baby no harm.) Other folks, they loved their unmedicated births. In the end, who cares?

I'm totally amazed at women who can do it drug-free but my epidural was the BEST THING EVER. No side effects, no headaches, and it didn't interfere with my ability to feel when to push at all. If I'd had to breath through the 10 hours it too me to dilate from 4 to 10 (instead of sleeping through them) I doubt I'd have been able to push as effectively and quickly. Considering I was deathly afraid of labor, being able to say "Hey, I could totally do that again" before they'd even finished weighing the baby was amazing.

But although I'm all about my pain meds, I don't think you can tell women it's the "better" choice. Telling someone "drugs are good" won't change their desire to experience the moment/see what their body can do/have a different birth than their last one.

I was doped to the gills during my first labor. Stadol every 2 -4 hours to take the edge off, Pitocin and an epidural.  No side affects and may baby was so alert she almost jerked my boob off nursing when I put her to the breast.  She was not groggy or sleepy, wide eyed and bushy tailed.

Likewise - nothing is black and white.  I salute, respect, and applaud any woman who could do it without drugs.  I tried.  I spent four hours dry heaving once "real" labor started, all the while stalled at a whopping 3 cm.  At that point, it was a case of "okay, I'm stalled right now to the point they are concerned and I am miserable and weak because I am throwing up bile every two minutes.  I can take the drugs and keep trying, or keep suffering and try.  I'll take the drugs."  I dialated from 3 to 10 in three hours, spent 40 minutes pushing, which I could feel, it just wasnt painful (I could feel pressure, the urge and need to push, him crowning, and finally coming out) and I wasn't dry heaving.  

Dont judge me, I won't judge you.

i got an epidural with both my boys. both times it didnt work. in hindsight...i still would have wanted them.

Women who get epidurals are cowards. Yes, having a baby hurts. Deal with it. In the process, you might discover that you can actually deal with just about anything. A good skill for a mother to have.

Yes, I know whereof I speak. I had all three of my children without taking so much as a Tylenol, and I had them at home, to boot.

Facing danger and emerging triumphant is character building, and character is something this country could use a little more of. Whiners, boo-hoo'ers, victims, wimps... we have plenty of those.  

Obviously, I am not referring to anyone with a life threatening complication. Giving birth can and does kill mothers and babies. But as far as I know being a candyass doesn't qualify as a life threatening medical emergency.

Ah, Crunchy Mama. Sling the shit, and give your own movement a really bad name. We're not cowards. But you are a judgmental, nasty bully. Deal with it.

Oh, and the next time you're building your sod house on the praririe, you brave pioneer, and your leg is crushed by a log, you'd best get that thing sawed off without anesthetic. Otherwise you'll be a whining, boohooing, victim wimp. Just like the rest of us. You ass.

I didn't have time for an epidural with my baby but probably would've asked for one if I'd showed up on time! It is nice to see that most people here can see both sides of the issue -

but Crunchy Mama, I don't understand why you are mean about this. I live on an Army base and my b. friend/neighbor used to be a convoy driver in Iraq...she had her arm blown up by a grenade and pulled out her gunner to help save him. AND SHE HAD AN EPIDURAL THREE YEARS LATER WHEN SHE HAD A BABY. YES SHE DID. (And I think even morphine the night before when labor started...)

If you called her a wimp to her face she'd probably drive her ten-ton supply truck over your superior little self....

The rest of the ladies, thank you for being kind...we need more kindness to mamas.

Crunchy Mama- I'm all about the natural child birth, breast feeding, pthalate free lotions, and all the other great granolaey things that I choose for my family.  But who are you to preach and judge?  You do give us all a bad name and make us look like judgemental jerks.  If you feel it's so necessary to preach natural childbirth to the world then a little honey goes a long way and being empathetic, compassionate, supportive, and understanding are character building, to boot.  

After the discussion about staying home/working parents, I would guess that Crunchy Mama is intentionally wording things in a way to get everyone all upset.

Crunchy Mama, can you please post a picture of that medal you surely got for your drug-free at home child birth?  The one I'm far too wimpy and cowardly to earn myself?  Please?  I want to see what inspires such nastiness.  I bet it's pretty.

As much as some of these comments piss me off, the comments from Jonesie, ABQMom, Manjari, and Laura are the ones that keep me reading and make me feel like I'm part of a community of loving, supportive mothers. More than anything, the ideals of compassion, kindness, and empathy, are what I want to pass on to my children...not judgement, egomania, and superiority. It is not always easy to model this, of course, but it is a priority in our family.

Crunchy Mommy is an asshole.  Everything she posts is carefully construed to be as ass-tastic and offensive as possible.  I don't even believe that she's a real mom; I think she's a nasty little troll who has slithered in here to upset people.  Go away, Crunchy, there are plenty of other places on the Internet that welcome your sort.

Annabelle:  good worth of the word "slithered."

Love!

I agree, MomofBeans. I also like "ass-tastic."

Is Crunchy Mama a regular? She made me throw up in the back of my throat.

I had my three babies at home without any pain meds but I  I've never specifically been able to say why natural birth was so godawfully important to me? It's natural to break bones if you fall off of a high surface and it's natural that those broken bones will hurt, yet no one would ever question your life philosophy if you requested pain meds for said broken bones. So the logic of childbirth being a natural process and therefore not requiring pain meds doesn't really hold. The latest medical literature indicates that the only potential harm to the labor process from receiving an epidural is that the fetus might not as readily go through the "cardinal movements" as it's travelling through the pelvis which just means you may have to push a little longer. I can't come up with a strong enough reason not to get an epidural, yet I and just about all the other medicine free moms I have talked to seem to have this bizarre obsession with "natural birth." Are we just trying to prove that we're bigger bad asses than everyone else? I don't really think it's that but I have yet to get to the root of it.

I'm just waiting until they invent the transporter technology from Star Trek, so they can beam those babies right out of there - that would be my preferred way to do it!

leahsmom: Sorry to tell you this, but to my knowledge, the ONLY time a baby was transported out of the mother was to be inserted into a surrogate.  Even in the future they seem to require you to give birth the good old natural way.  With or without drugs, that's probably a personal choice, but I know that they promoted breastfeeding on 'Voyager,' so at least that won't die down :p

I wanted to go sans epi for several reasons.  1) I hate sharp things touching my back, 2) for all the reason's Amy stated, 3) to avoid the cascade effect, 4) I'd read that some women couldn't feel the contractions so it made it harder to push, and 5) b/c millions of women before me did, and in my opinion, as a Christian, God would smile upon me for not diminishing the suffering he afflicted upon women for Eve's sins, or something like that.

I was induced, so I did NOT have a restful night in the hospital before I went into labor (I missed my Tempurpedic - they should gives those out with positive preg tests), so I asked for something to help me sleep until I progressed, and was given Stadol (I don't think it was more than one dose, tho).  I don't think it was a lot as I felt the contractions and breathed through everyone, but I forewent the actual epidural despite people's disbelief that I'd tolerate the pain (and I thought I had a low threshold).

I think this study is full of s-- and that other's are correct it must be the drug companies (or doctors) trying to convince women to get epis.  In the end, every woman has to make her own choice and do what she feels is best for herself and her unborn child.  Even the doctors are really there to ensure nothing tragic happens.