I hear you about how people plan kids. When we start to "plan" nothing seems to be right. It is never the right time, there is never enough money, or room!

First off, the look Archer's giving "Emily" is priceless. :)

But yeah, I know exactly what you mean about the sibling age gap. My brother and sister have always been close, being three years apart. I came 9 years later. My husband and his three older brothers are all within 8 years (and he's 4 years younger than the next) and they are all best friends. Whatever you choose to do, families are what you make of them, and Archer (and future kiddies) will adjust just fine.

Bec, I have to tell you..  I thought I was so smart trying to plan for #2...  and then...   I got the surprise of my life, and what came easy the first time turned in secondary infertility and recurrent loss.

If you are even entertaining the idea, you must act on it.  Because you just don't know what's in store.  I used to think about the age/money/readiness/but I have to fit in a dress for a special event thing, but now that is not even a thought. kwim?  (didn't mean this post to be a downer, but I just wanted to put that out there).

Wishing the best for you!

I too had an oopsie for my first child. A shock and surprise but it was kind of a relief to not have that conversation with my husband of when to have kids and then sucking it up and going for it. My son is almost two and we thought kids with 2.5 years between them would be ideal as well. So after freaking out A LOT for a few months, we tried, got pregnant the 2nd month, and miscarried a week after the positive test. Now that my one month window is up and we're ready to try again I keep thinking that with each passing month that our kids will be further and further apart and we're missing our window of perfect sibling balance. So, I agree with the previous comment. Get a little sloppy with the birth control and see what happens. You never know.

There are 7 years between my brother and I, 5 between my older step-sister and three between my younger step-sister. I'm not really close to any of them but I am closest to my younger sister. My brother went to live with my father when I was 9 so I don't really know him. Now he lives far, far away. I'd like to think we'd be friends if he were closer.

I'm thinking three years. I used to say that I couldn't commit to a second but now I'm pretty sure there will be another one sometime in the future. Look at that Boog's not even a year old and that birth amnesia is already starting to kick in.

My oldest older brother was 17 when I was born. My youngest older brother is 6 years older than me. (I'm the youngest of six. Insert Catholic joke here.) A wise thing my sister once said is that siblings are cool and all when you're a kid, but they matter a whole lot more when you're an adult. That's one of the reasons why I'm not really sweating the 10-year difference between my daughter and my son--I know from experience that I'm closer to some of my older siblings than the younger ones.

Another wise person (my hubby this time) had this to say, when I was sweating getting pregnant again: There is no good time. Just when you think your ducks are all in a row, something out of the blue will happen to mess up those best laid plans. (Ahem. No pun intended). I was all freaking out about the timing because I'm a teacher, and it only makes sense to give birth in June, July, and August, right? But as it happened, my son magically was timed so that I left school exactly at the end of the first semester.

So...you never know. What might seem like the weirdest time is likely the perfect time, because in the end, you're holding a brand new snuggle bug. Babies are cool like that. And however old Archer happens to be when the baby comes, it'll be just the right time for him, because that will be the reality he knows.

Ha. I was 27 with 2 kids  2 years ago. Now I am 29 with a 2 and 5 year old. Two is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY harder than one, but I figured that. What rocks is that my kids are totally into each other. Sometimes it is totally into bugging the shit out of one another and sometimes it is a love fest. Either way they have each other and that is all I wanted.

My brother and me are 4 and a half years apart. I used to dress him up and play with him, even when my friends were over! He was part of our games.

Now he's almost 18 and I'm 22, and we bond over metal (we rock the moshpit together all the time) and videogames.

Being this far apart is double-edged. It's hard to become BFFs, but the eldest can act as a guide and confidant... or become some bothersome know-it-all ^_^;;;

Anyway, 4 years seems like a good age difference to me.

(btw, Archer looks like my brother at the same age so much it's eerie)

Crack. up. with that doll! Ha!

We are just starting "ttc" and our son just turned 3 on the 3rd. I had always planned on having my kids closer in age, but once I had him, I couldn't imagine being pregnant with him *so* "young". Oy. I'm still a little on the fence about it, but I know I just gotta get it done. I know I want him to be a brother and I don't want him to be TOO much older when I'm pregnant... but I'm still scared!!

I agree that siblings are a really important part about family that tend to get left out in our society of only-children. I'm 2 years and 1 month older than my brother, and while we got on each other's nerves in highschool, I'm SO happy to have him in my life now. And we had a blast as kids! Plus now I can have him and his awesome lady over for dinner and we can pretend to be adults. It rocks when you have siblings and you are in your 20s!

Plus there is something really awesome to be said about extended families with cousins and nieces and nephews. I guess my family fell in the crapper when I was 10, and all I HAD was my brother to live the experience with me. Plus watching my cousin grow from a baby into a young woman (eep!) has been such an important part of my life. All of these people to share your life experience with, who are stuck with you. ;)

I've gone from wanting two kids to wanting three. We'll see how things go, but the sibling bond is excellent. Archer's cool, and he wasn't planned. We have ways of making our lives work around unexpected blessings. :)

PS: Then you could write about the next one until he/she is 5?  haha I kid, I kid.

I have no idea what a good age difference would be.  I think what my kids have is pretty good, for me, anyway.  They are about 4 years apart.  I get to have a baby (yeah, my baby will turn 2 in Feb) and a big kid (6 yrs old in June).  She can help and do these on her own and I can devote time to him.  Besides, with her in school I get one on one time with him, which was a big one for me.    

It is still tricky and we are trying to figure out if a family of 5 is best for us.  That scares the shit out of me.  There are always obstacles and nothing is ever perfect, but you learn to go with the flow.  So what if he runs off, I chase after him and tell the other one to get in the car, ALREADY.  Because she can and I can trust that with her 5 yr old brain that she will have to listen to one thing at least once a day.  

To give you some prespective,  my brother and I are 6 years apart to the day and we had a pretty good realtionship.  I think no matter how many years separated us we would have been the same.  I have 2 half sisters they are 8 years apart from each other.  I am not sure, but I think there is some resentment there.  I believe because the older of the two was forced to be more of a babysitter than an older sister.  I think it is how you parent them as a unit more than how many years are between them.  I ask my daughter to help, but they know I am the Mom and not her.

Good luck on your decision and remember the first year is hardest, at least for me it was.  

I crashed on to the motherhood scene and didn't slip into it gracely like so many of my friends... AND I PLANNED IT.

My son just turned 3 last week and my youngest, yes, I have another one a boy, is 8 mos old.  Age fogged my mind when we decided to have #2, I'll be 40 next year.  In an ideal world I would have waited until Tucker was 3 before we started trying but who knew what my fertility would be at such an "advanced maternal age?"

LIFE has been crazy to say the least but oh so worth it.  I have those moments of "WTH was I thinking," then Carsen flashes his smile and you couldn't pay me to go back.  8 months later and I'm still trying to find my Grove with work, housework and managing a family but we're surviving and we're happy.  I must be doing something right.

Best of luck in TTC #2.  

Dude, everyone handles baby 2 differently.  It's scary, that leap to #2, because suddenly the number of little hands to get into stuff matches the number of big hands keeping them out of stuff.  But really, for me, it was just knowing that I didn't want an only child; I wanted Gabe to have a sibling; and I knew the farther apart they were in age the less in common they would have growing up.  Ours will be 4 years apart.  I look upon those mothers who have kids 2 years apart or less with awe, because it's something I'm not sure I could have handled.  However, it's all temporary, the two toddlers under one roof.  And we adapt.  Just like you adapted with finding out you were surprisingly pregnant; just like you adapted when Archer was born and you aren't a by-the-book parent.  You found out what worked for you.  You can do so again, and with the flair your readers have come to admire in you.

Good luck to you, and a word of warning/caution/or just a plain heads' up: carrying baby 2 in a belly that's carried a baby 1 is a whole new ballgame.  Not only do you show the instant that second pink line or plus sign shows up, but baby 2 can just often feel heavier than baby 1 ever did.  But there's also a familiarity there that inspires confidence.  Good luck with TTC, and have fun!  The trying part rocks the casbah.

My older sister and I are four years apart, and while there was some distance between us for a bit during childhood, by the time she got to high school we were the best of friends, as we remain today.

And a good friend once pointed out to me the genuis of having kids four years apart - you'll never be putting more than one through college at a time!

i think thats when i am going to break my packed with the devil for an only...gus will be 4 so it sounds about right. a lot of recent events that have been less than happy have turned my only childness mind set around. but beware, don't go in with the notion that they will be bff's...more often that not i meet and know and am one of those people that could easily never speak to one of their siblings again....blood doesn't always mean buds. that being said babies are awesome and you have one fine little guy so good luck to you!!!

I'm in the exact same position - except i'm 34, which kind of doesn't leave much time to make decisions. Why am I shit scared of having another one? I definitely don't want my little man to be a one and only in the world, especially because I'm one of three (two years apart and four years apart), and my siblings are my support system and my grounding. But I'm terrified of getting it (the timing. everything) wrong. When it's planned you don't have that 'but we didn't plan it this way' excuse for messing up. Oh, and I just read that having another child is the most important environmental decision you can ever possibly make. Overpopulation. Carbon footprint. Still wanting (a bit of) a career. The guilt!

There is no right age, there is no right time. No matter how far apart or close together they are, siblings will still fight, love, laugh, dropkick, tease and play together.

I think the relationship between siblings varies greatly on the family dynamic. Siblings don't come out of the womb and just automatically know 'how' to behave towards the other. They learn their love for each other by watching parents, friends etc. interact with each other, mimicking the family dynamic and follow suit with their siblings.

But as for the parents, I feel there has to be some sort of mental prepardness to get ready for #2... but you have 9 months to do that ;-)

I read somewhere on one of your blogs that you had preeclampsia with your pegnancy, as did I. Are you freaked about that happening again? My daughter is 10 months old and the "trauma" of that situation still has me shell-shocked... although the doctors don't seem as worried...

Really. You just can't think about it too much.  Jump on in.  Head First.  Trust your instincts.  It will be OK.  Really.  Except for those first few months...  Wait.  Stop thinking.  Just Jump.  Really.

yea, me too. I have a son who is 3 and a half, he hates me most of the time.....Mad about his daddy. Just makes me cherish the few love you's I get.

Baby #2 is mine!

But we are on again off again about having another baby. This month we are on. Until my sister in law stops by with her one month old and I start thinking about those eeeeeearly morning feedings..... eek.

Congrats on your decision. I think four years is a great gap but I also agree with others here - how close they are is going to depend on who they are and how their personalities mesh, not necessarily how close they are in age.

My oldest was planned by her mother and father (she's my step) so I had no say in that one.  When DH and I got married, she was 4...it just made sense to have the next one and "get it out of the way".  3 1/2 years later, we found out that we were having 3 (on birth control, with fertility issues, I get pregnant.  Really...hate me those that have problems).  Talk about a shock.  So they are all approx 4-5 years apart, but you know what?  They truly are there for each other.  They play soccer and hang out on the playground and play video games and read stories and watch TV and drive us crazy...together.  They have sleepovers on the weekends in each others rooms, they go places together and are inlcuded in each others lives.  They may not "bond" over clothes sharing so much, but they love to shop together and give advice.  So, don't sweat it.  When it's meant to happen it will, and the age difference is what you make it for them.

I anticipated a nice 4-year gap for the first 11 months of B's life.  I sold all the crap that was taking over our skinny house.  I giggled with glee as 1st-time preggos shelled out big bucks for all the swings, exersaucers and oh-so-cute baby clothes (I had bought a lot of pink, and it's not his colour...so he never got to wear the baby Dior I picked up at the garage sale)

On his first birthday I immediately felt the tick-tock of the clock again!  I still had a few months off work though.  Once I had fully settled back in and lost all my baby weight, we set off on our Family 3.0 adventure.  Luckily, we got pg on cue and my kids would be 2 years apart. I thought, it will be so crazy in the beginning, but much easier later when they can play together, hang together, and go to the same schools.  

Also, with 6 and 7 years between my brothers and I, we are not close at all, and I really hoped that for my own children.  And being 30, if I wanted to think about 3 or possibly more I really couldn't afford to wait.  I had - THE PLAN!

Sadly, my baby was diagnosed with a rare brain anomaly incompatible with life, and we lost him at 23 weeks of pregnancy.  It was devastating and made me re-think our entire lives, and especially beyond my 'PERFECT FAMILY PLAN'.

Sooooooo...much like other responses - the whole thing is that you CANNOT make plans...but you take much love in the family you're blessed with, however it happens.

That said - we are expecting again now and B will almost be 3.  I think that is a much saner age difference, and I'm taking it as it comes!  :)  

Wow.... y'all almost have ME convinced to start trying  ;)  

My daughter is 2.5 years old. Maybe I'll give it till she turns 3....  

(I'm 38)

Mine are 3 years, 2 months apart.  The boy will be one next week and while I think it's a pretty good age gap, I'll admit that it has been a crazy year.  My girlie is extremely verbal which was good and bad.  When I was 8 months pregnant she told me that I was going to be the baby's sister.  When I corrected her, she answered "NO.  You can be his sister.  YOU are MY MOMMY and I STILL NEED YOU."  My heart is still broken.  But sometimes they are so sweet together, and I think that they are teaching each other about the world, and how to share and get along and cope in the world.  Good luck, and whenever it happens, I really believe that you get the baby you're supposed to have.  

good luck with your pregger plans. i have 3. the boy and girl are exactly ten days short of two years apart (girl is the oldest) and they hate eachother. no really- like HATE eachother. they made me whip out the "you'll feel bad for breaking my heart when i'm dead" line. it's that bad. then the youngest is 9 and 7 years younger than they are and they both love her. so no one ever knows how it will go. but i wouldn't give any of them back. well, not permanently. well...nah.

Four or more years apart also means you won't have to put two kids through college at the same time-- now that's a serious bonus with the rising costs of education!! Having kids closer in age doesn't mean automatic buddies! You never know what you're gonna get and how they are going to get along.

My sister and I are four years apart. We shared a room growing up and were very different, fought a lot. Now, as adults, we are great friends! The same goes for my other sister (7 yrs apart) and my brothers (8 and 10 years apart)!

I wanted to try getting pregnant the second we finalized the adoption of our son (he was about one and a half at the time) but my husband was a lot more cautious.  We waited and now we have an age gap of nearly 5 and a half years between kids.  Lots of people warned us that it would be a problem but so far it's been awesome.  He's 7 and she's 2 and they are crazy about each other.  I've never seen two kids who get along so well.  I don't know if it will always be this way but right now I would say 5 years is the perfect amount of time between kids.

Congrats on the step towards multiple parenthood!  I myself am pregnant with #2, due in May- my first is going to be 4 in January- so they'll have the exact same age spread as Archer and your #2.  And, I just wanted to say thanks for the honesty here- I am tooooootally freaking out over being the MOTHER. OF. TWO.  I mean, I just started getting sleep again, and now I gotta start all over??  My man and I were in Target yesterday, and I almost broke out in hives looking at the baby strollers, and the cribs, and the baby clothes.  I just gave away six bags of baby clothes!  We just stopped buying diapers!  It feels totally overwhelming.  But, then I hear Ella in her room pretending she's holding a baby, or talking about her "little brother in mommy's tummy", and I soften up a bit.  And, remembering how completely unprepared I was for her, and how I can pretty much handle anything now (with a hot bath and a glass of wine...), and it doesn't seem too daunting.  You're gonna be fine, and just like when Archer arrived, you're gonna forget how you ever survived without both of them...

Just do it.  You'll never plan yourself ready.  My hubbie and I started trying to plan out our next kid when my first was 6 months old.  Should we go off birth control? Do I want to have another child after this demon colic spawn of mine? blah, blah blah....little did we know that I had been pregnant for 3 months already!

My kids are 12 months apart.  Yep, 2 kids under 2 years old!  It really isn't that bad.  You just do whatever it takes.  You even eventually learn how to take showers again :)  Rememver the adjustment you first went through with Archer?....it's like that, but easier because now you have a little bit of an idea as to what you're doing.

I am 26 with 2 boys who are now 4 and 6.  The two year gap is great for their relationship, but a lot of work.  We were changing diapers for about 4 1/2 years straight between the two of them.  My husband is deployed for the second time and when he gets back (April) we've talked about possibly having number 3.  There would be a 5 year age gap from my youngest and I don't really want the gap to get bigger than that.  You never know though, sometimes it has more to do with their personalities and whether they click together rather than the age difference.  

Bec, strap it on girl! I just went off the pill and we are TTC...love the lingo. Yeah, I am just taking one for the team because I will probably we a freaking mess but you know what, life is a mess no matter how you look at it. As we have both seen, there is never the perfect moment and never enough money, so get to it girlie.....concieve already. then we can be prego together, 8 hours away, and have babies the same age again! love you tons...go now, hurry!!!

Yeah, I'm 24, and my kids are 3 and 1.5, a year and a half apart.  THAT was insane at first, and still kinda is, but I wouldn't trade it for the world.  I assume that it doesn't matter when you go from one kid to two, it's probably insane.  I hear that going from 2 to 3 or more isn't as bad of a change, but I don't plan on ever finding out.  2 is enough for me!  I was an only child, my mom struggled to get pregnant with me, and struggled afterwards so much that I never did have a sibling.  I just count myself lucky to have these two.

Archer and Kennedy look like siblings!

I have 2 older sisters, one is 2 years older and one is 4 years older than me, i like the small differences, but i bicker more with the one who is only 2 years older (despite us being very very close, and best friends). the 4 year age gap is big enough for me to still respect her as an elder despite both of us being adults. it's 6 of on and half a dozen of the other.

If you're waiting to be 'ready', you'll be waiting forever.I don't think we're ever ready, but after baby #2 comes you won't be able to imagine your family any other way!

There is 4 1/2 years between my oldest son and my second son.    Like you, my brother and I are 2 years apart and I was worried about the bigger span.  It's different, but they're still close and it's special in other ways.

Then two years later, we got preggo with #3....but at our first ultrasound we found out we had a #3 AND #4 (and we don't have twins in the family).

Was I ready?  No way!!!!

But, now we're a family of 6 and I can't imagine life any other way.  It's busy, and hectic, and amazing.  

Good luck with your next leap of faith.  Isn't life a wild ride??

We're just still on number one (not actively trying but not longer actively preventing it either), but in terms of sibling spacing my sister are I are 6 years apart and to this day (we're 29 and 23) we're crazy close.  There was a time when I was in college and she was in Jr. high that we didn't talk much/have much in common but aside from those few years it's been great.  

When we were younger I loved playing with her and teaching her things.  We rarely argued because I could never make since of being 12 and arguing with a 6 year old.  My parently laid on the 'role model' thing pretty thick and I soaked it all up.  We talk about every other day. My husband has a sister who's 13 years younger than him and they talk ALL THE TIME! She's mostly telling him about the new cute boy in her class :)  But she rarely calls/speaks to one of her other brothers who's a little closer in age.

I'm saying all of this to say that individual personality is often more important than age difference.  

Our decision on age differences was financially driven - must pay off cars in order to afford paying for daycare for #2.  That said, there are 4 years and 3 months between the boy and the girl and it's awesome.  We can leave him alone in a room with her and not worry that he will poke her eyes out.  He likes to help.  He can give her a pacifier in the car and truly adores her.  They also need different enough things that he doesn't get jealous.  Oh, and we were far enough removed from the baby stuff - pacifiers, diapers, etc. - that he didn't regress at all.

My brother and I are 6 years apart.  We fought like crazy when I was a kid but are uber close now.

I'm 27 with three kids, and thinking a fourth!  And you thought you were crazy.

Wow... new baby!!  How exciting.  I doubt I will even have one kid by 27 so, you know, you're wayyyy ahead of the curve ;).  I was (am) 4.5 years older than my brother, who is in turn 4 years older than my sister, which meant we had the same "I moved out when she was 11" dynamic.  We're still not super close, but on the other hand, we didn't fight much.  I think it just depends on the family though... my family in general is not especially demonstrative or huggy, and if you guys are then I'm sure that will affect Archer's relationship with the baby.  can't wait to see him/ her :)

I'm in the EXACT same position, too. Completely unready to have another kid (my boy is 2.5), but know that I want one some day, just NOT RIGHT NOW. In fact, I was just discussing the idea of "trying" next summer with my man the other day. The funny part of all of this is that I've been super late this month, took a preg test last night, and holyshitimpregnant.

And you know what? It's okay. It's not at all right, and I'm most probably going to go all Bertha Rochester when the baby gets here and I'm totally unequipped to cope with myself much less two whippersnappers, but it will be okay. We will be happy.

This is all to say, we can plan all we'd like, but sometimes it just doesn't matter.

At least once each day I am thankful that I have two kids.  They have a relationship that I am not a part of and it is beautiful.

When we planned our second to be 3 years younger than our first, I still worried how would we manage all of it. I focused on making Beau "the big brother" and making his "big boy room". When Luke was born, I was amazed at how special their relationship is. I didn't even think about the fact that they are brothers. They laugh, learn, dig, run, fight, splash, all together. It's awesome. And well worth all the chaos and trouble. Whatever age yours are will be great. I do think that parents can help to foster their relationship too. I'm sure you and Hal will be awesome at that. Good luck!

My sister and I are 7 years apart.  That's too much.  My boys are 22 months apart.  That rocks.  They're best buds, amd I'm so glad they have eachother, especially since I never got to experience that.  

The funny thing is that I'm pregnant again and by the time this one comes along, my youngest will be 10.  The crazy thing is that we planned it.  I think I've lost my mind.

My boys are almost 2 1/2 years apart.  The youngest is only 3 months, so the jury is still out, but so far so good.  Dylan loves his little brother and hasn't had too many jealousy issues, except for a short stint sleeping on the dog bed.  My hope is that they'll be BFF's like my sister and me and you and your brother.  There's nothing like it!  

Having said that, I'll probably wait longer before the next one (if there is one).  I'm not sure I want to go through having to change two diapers again!

There's never going to be a perfect time, because there's always going to be some reason NOT to do it.  You'll know when you're ready and trust me, as soon as that little one arrives, it will become the best decision you ever made!  

P.S. OMG...Emily freaks ME out...please, please, please make sure Archer understands that THAT is not what having a sibling is all about!  :0)

I too had my first child at a young age-23. Between finishing my BA and trying to break into a design career, 28 snuck up on me rather quickly. I decided it was time. It was a tough decision, because after about age 3 (or potty training), you revert back to being a bit of the old pre-baby selfish self. Your child becomes more independent. You can go out and the kiddo can stay at G'mas for the weekend, take a vacation with your spouse, drink wine with friends until you pass out, whatever we Moms do for fun.

We had said if we didn't have another baby by the time our daughter was five, then we were cool with one.

I now have a 6 month old and five year old, and it is an incredible/ rewarding /frustrating / blessed trip everyday. The worst was when she said "I really want it to be just the three of us again." I think the more verbal the kid is the harder the adjustment. They can tell you how you've in a sense rocked their world upside down.

He of course is clueless to her resentment and lights up every time she looks his way. I think each day gets better, and I'm amazed these beautiful little people are mine. (And I'm holding out for a vacation around the time he's one. Keeping my fingers crossed!)

HBF and I tried to sort out the whole 'being ready' thing, until we came to the realization that we weren't never going to feel as ready as we wanted to feel. So we decided to let fate decide, and fate did, and now here we are, all knocked up and shit. And I gotta say - I still don't feel 100% ready, whatever that means. I felt more ready yesterday than I did two months ago, and I certainly feel more ready having seen some u/s pics, but truth? I might feel LESS ready tomorrow, when Wonderbaby kicks my ass again and I spend the afternoon with my head in the toilet. But when the little sprout arrives? I KNOW that we'll be ready for him/her.

Ready in our hearts. That's all that matters.

xo

There's been a lot of comments regarding when siblings do and don't get along.  I know my bro and I (3 1/2 years apart) HATED, and I mean hated each other.  BUT my parents didn't really do a good job and there was a messy divorce.  I wonder if the parents get along and provide good boundaries and lots of love, if it really matters what the age difference is.  Just curious.

Sounds like you have a plan.  My kids are 18, 5 and 3 1/2.  There are 22 months between numbers 2 and 3.  It works for us.   The first 6 months of Quinn's (the youngest) life were sortve a blur, but I enjoy them.  At least you will have only one in diapers and all that.  The double diapers/pull-ups thing sucks.  I hope everything turns out just the way you want it to....I tend to agree with everyone else that planning it down to the month and everything doesn't always work.  You'll land on your feet no matter what!!!  

For some reason I have chronic eight month post-baby baby fever. Eight months after my daughter was born I got the fever. Finn was conceived two weeks later. Finn will be eight months old on Dec. 9th and I am already feeling it full force  despite the fact that I had my tubes tied when Finn was born (my husband and I decided long ago we could handle no more than two). For example, I spent about three hours looking at <a href="www.jctoys.com/.../productView.aspx  baby dolls of which I purchased two for my daughter to assuage my need for cute baby-ness.