I would ask why you didnt say anything but I wouldnt have either. I do not like confrontation. I also dont like telling people how to raise/discipline/etc their kids. even if they need some telling.

You would think that by the time babies became toddlers the airlines would insist that they have their own seat. everyone knows that toddlers are squirmy and rather big when you're sitting on an airplane.

but hey, at least she slept.

I wouldnt have shared my Goldfish crackers. she'd have to fight me for them.

And kudos, for being a practical person and understanding the realities of being in public with children :D

I agree with you 100%.  I have been called a snob and deemed elitist but I do not think that a child of any age should be allowed to ride on a plane without his or her own seat.  Here are a few arguments against the ticket-free child passenger on an airplane:

First, legally you can not ride in a car with a child who is not in a car seat.  Why on Earth would you ride on a plane without a child in a car seat?  

Second, I'm not only a mom but I am also one of the many business people who travel via airplane very often.  In my pre-baby days,  I was known to refer to a trip to Chicago as a day trip (I live in Boston) and to go to California and back for a 2 hour meeting.  That being said, traveling is often stressful and almost always tiring.  The last thing that you need is your already tiny allotment of space to be cramped by someone else’s child.

Finally, and this is purely pragmatic, I would no sooner force my daughter to sit in my lap for 3 to 5 hours at home than I would stick myself in the eye.  Not only would we both be uncomfortable but, as anyone with a toddler knows, she would be like a caged wild animal within minutes.  

Anyway, I usually just lurk but I feel very strongly about this issue so I had to respond and elaborate to support your point.

Are seats for kid's discounted? While I totally see the point of why a toddler wouldn't want to sit on a lap for this long (or a mom to have a kid on their lap this long) I also look at it as "hey, its only 3-4 hours out of a lifetime of hours, so what's the big deal?" Sure its an inconvenience, but I can't see myself telling the person who saved up for months just for one airplane ticket so their kid could see their grandma for the first  "sorry, if you can't afford another ticket.. no seeing grandma for another year until you can afford that other seat"..

However, this being said I can't believe how rude and ungrateful that mom was. If that had been me I would have been thanking (and apologizing) profusely. Although I would never dare to enter closed quarters with no snack for my one year old's bottomless stomach. heh.

This is why I dont fly with my children.  I have flown with my daughter twice.  Once when she was 5 months old and once when she was 2 yrs old.  And both times she had her own seat.  There was no way in hell I was going to fight with her to stay with me and why should I be uncomfortable.  And yes, I do believe the tickets were discounted.

Although my daughter was pretty good on the flights, I cant see myself wrestling with my son and trying to watch my daughter the whole time.  At least, in the car the only people they are bothering are me and my husband.  Let's face they will bother us, at some point, throughout our lives and we asked for it.  Besides, all the heavy crap (i.e. carseats and strollers) I would have to bring just makes me long for long car rides where I can drown out their screams with the radio.

This actually made me quite sad.  We live across the country and as a single mom (I have not updated my profile lately) it is the only way I can afford to fly at times.

And she should have said thank you- but I have to admit this broke my heart a little.  

I meant to say, "We live across the country from all our family"  we have no family in the area, which equals no support.  I probably would have slept from exhaustion as well.

YIKES!  I'm flying tomorrow and I didn't book Critter a seat.  I wrote an apology post.  

I just booked our tickets for a cross country sojourn with our 13 month old.  My husband was totally against getting a seat for her, reasoning that she'll just want to be in our laps anyway.  I was adament, even before reading your post, that it was unfair to those around us to have her on the loose.  Besides, it's not his lap she'll want to be on.  

Thanks for the ammunition, I'm forwarding him this link.

I'm glad you clarified as I'll admit the "And if you can't afford it? Don't fly. It isn't fair. It isn't nice. It's tacky and disrespectful and annoying" comment upset me quite a bit as well.  Taken in context, that you were annoyed with this one woman, I can understand your frustration, but that is such a blanket classist statement implying poor women shouldn't fly, which only serves to make mom-bloggers sound like elitist snobs.  

I have flown four times with my son, who is now 20 months (but I always had another adult with me.)  At no time did I buy him his own seat...cause they do not offer a discount on children's tickets and I went along with the theory that he would want to be in my arms anyway.  The last flight we went on was not fully booked and I was able to bring my son's car seat on board and have him sit between my husband and myself at no cost...it was nice but not really worth me spending another $200-$300 for 3 hours nice.  (But I must mention that I am insane about being considerate to other people on board and the couple times my son did whimper/cry I had a daiper bag packed with food, drinks, toys and games to keep him happy.)  Also, in 4 months he no longer qualifies as a "lap infant" and I have to buy him a seat anyway.

I would be more concerned about the mom who ignored her child and let the toddler eat food from a stranger and rest her head on some man's lap...doesn't that mom realize there are sicko's in this world?

Seats are discounted until your kid is like 5 or something.  Even then it can still be expensive.  But I was under the impression that kids over two were required to have their own seat.  Don't know about you, but even my smallish two-year-old is still too big to sit on my lap for 5 hours.

I would have started coughing or hocking snot...perhaps the threat of germs might have spurred her to remove her child from your vicinity.

I am one of those people that can't afford the extra seat... and that is why I am a big fan of the family road trip. Some of my best memories when I was a kid were from our cross country treks from California to Ohio and back. Yes it takes a long time but it is an awesome experience and you can make frequents stops to fit your toddlers needs. I think we need to bring the road trip back.

I totally see where you are coming from. I would have said something after, though. I am not so nice. I would have been kind to the little girl but I would have given the mother a verbal bitch-slap.

I look into that... :D

I first time I flew with my son, he was 6 months old.  He had a seat.  He has always had his own seat- in spite of the cost, in spite of our budget.  When my daughter came along, flying became beyond expensive for the family- now we had 3-4 seats to pay for for every trip!  The result?  We hardly ever fly now.

You can't afford it?  Me neither.  But the cost is a crazy argument in my mind.  Federal laws say that it isn't safe for adults to fly without a seat belt on.  Do you think you can hold your baby in your arms in an emergency?  Please tell me how you can justify this when I know, you are super safe in everything else you do with your kids....

Eventually, FAA regulations will make sense and ALL passengers will require a seat and to be properly restrained during take off, landing and during turbulence.

Going to see family?  Get some help with the cost of the flight.  All of our family has pitched in over the years to help them fly to us and us fly to them.  We have traditionally done one trip per year to bring kid(s) to the grandparents, great-grandparents, aunts, uncles etc.  In lieu of Christmas gifts, I have gotten help with paying for flights.  Family can help family out and even if the family isn't rich, trips with the grandkids usually involve presents - we just made seeing each other the present!

And as for Rebecca's experience.  Please.  How could anyone think she shouldn't be pissed at this mom.  Your child is your responsibility.  No matter how tired, no matter how overwhelmed- your kid shouldn't be eating other people's snacks and sleeping on them.  She PAID for her seat.  She is finally getting some time to HERSELF and any parent should get how HARD that is.  I'd be pissed too.

PingBack from http://www.keithtipton.com/2007/06/08/straight-from-the-bottle-your-baby-my-lap-not-cool/

suggestion for all the moms who cant afford the extra ticket: see if southwest flies from to your destination.

they dont have seating arrangements so if the flight isnt fully booked, you can easily get a free seat by you.  (me and my lil bro usually snag an extra seat to lie down and take naps)

bonus: family with small children board first which means first choice of seats.  and more often than not, people wont sit near you because they know how toddlers are on flights.

and if you book ahead, you can get $89 tickets each way to most places.  AND the planes arent hella ghetto,  they are actually much more spacious and updated than the alaska and american airlines flights i have taken.  no first class, but im not sure that relevant.

Didn't anyone see the movie FEARLESS with Rosie Perez and Jeff Bridges?? She is holding her son on her lap while her plane is about to crash and her son doesn't survive because he FLIES out of her arms. She suffers from depression and won't get out of bed because she blames herself for not holding him tight enough. Jeff Bridges takes her on a car ride and tells her to hold a bag ( i think it was a bag) as tight as she can as he crashes into a wall. The bag flies from her arms. She realizes it was impossible to hold on to her son during the plane crash.

Buy a seat. It's expensive, yes. But what is your little one's life worth? I, for one, never want to say "if only I had paid the extra two hundred bucks..."

p.s.- i am poor. ~jjlibra

LOL at----Maybe she thought I was her in-flight nanny/entertainment/bitch but I certainly was not. I was (and still am, apparently) pissed.

yup, that's what you were.  *sigh*

you're so sweet.  you endured all that for 4 hours?

Darling "Allie" is probably also allowed to chuck her french fries at other patrons in restaurants, too.  If Mommy can just ignore the little dear a few more years, she'll be out of the house and no longer a worry!

So you just sat there for four hours?  You didn't politely nudge the woman and politely ask her to move her kid's feet from your lap?  You didn't ask a flight attendant for some assistance?  You just fumed and 'put up with it'?  Give me a break!

If you didn't have the ovaries to protest, then quit complaining.  No sympathy for martyrs in this camp.

Rikki

I must say I agree with RikkiTikiTavi.  Fear of confrontation is endemic to women and it drives me insane.  

If it's any consolation, your seatmate was probably dying of embarrassment too, but that's still no excuse for walking all over you.  

You've mentioned your aversion to confrontation before.  Do you know what causes it, or triggers it?  Sometimes I get a little nverous about speaking up, but then I remind myself, "what's the worst that could happen?  Someone will think i'm bitchy and uppity?  Maybe, but a) that's not so bad and b) next time I won't have to do it!

Hope this helps!

It's true, this gives a bad name to people who travel conscientiously with their children. I haven't had to travel with Pumpkinpie yet, and plan to put it off until I think we can handle it, but if I had to? You can bet she'd come with a bagfull of books, quiet toys, and snacks. You can bet she'd have her own seat because she would NOT sit on my lap for long. You can bet I would have asked the airline about options for 2-seat rows, bulkheads, inflight TV screens, children's channels on the headphones, and whatever else might keep her comfy and less likely to annoy others.

Years ago, like 16 years, ago, I traveled with my then 2 year old son.  I tried to save money and didn't buy a seat.  I was lucky on the way down but the return trip found me sitting next to a business traveler type, mid 20's dad.  With the toddler from hell.  He was tired, and wound up, and I didn't understand at that time, he was (and still is) autistic.  It was the plane ride from hell.  Only 2 hours, but the longest 2 hours of my life.  He wanted nothing to do with me, but for some reason he attached himself to the guy next to me, who btw, was a frigging saint.  This guy told me he and his wife were "trying", and he had nephews....but I swore after that trip--never again.  

Sometime later, I read about an airplane crash in I believe Kansas or OK City.  The plane tumbled over and over again.  The article was heartbreaking because it focused on the death of a toddler whose mom decided he would sit on her lap.  He died because she couldn't hold onto him.  

Fast forward to 2006, we took a trip to DisneyWorld after getting a really nice tax return.  We could have saved almost $550 because our two youngest could fly free without a seat.  My husband kept on telling me how much extra Disney stuff we could buy with that money.  But I wouldn't budge.  In the end, we took their carseats and purchased their seats (we did get a discount--not much, but better than none) and I believe the plane ride went better because of this.  Were things perfect??? Nope. But I can't imagine making a toddler sit in my lap for over 2 hours, not to mention that magazine article, it still haunts me.  

Now, I understand that it is cheaper and all.  FYI, we are broke.  But I would put off a trip before NOT buying a seat for my youngest children.  NOT worth the risk or mess you will end up with in the future.

And Rebecca, you are a saint.

So don't planes in the US have those child belts that attach to yours? Everytime I have flown with my daughter (Australia) I've had a belt for her, and she travelled on my lap until she was two. And yes I had enormous amounts of food/distracting toys etc. and no she never impinged on anyone else's space (which is more than I can say for many child-free travellers who decide to commandeer both armrests, put their seat back as far as they can, and invade your legspace in various subtle ways).

I agree with RikkiTikkiTavi too - fuming and not saying anything? You need to speak up - not on the web after the fact but in person to the mother.

*Travel agent here*

All (major) airlines offer a discounted seat for children under 24 months.  Usually 50% off the base fare.  Once they turn 2, all bets are off, full fare.  Internationally, all (once again, major) carriers offer a 10% charge for a "lap-child" and a discounted fare for said-child-has-not-yet-turned-2.

I have 3 children and we fly several times a year.  Anyone over "infant-stage" gets their own seat since traveling to Florida 5 years ago with the-most difficult 18-month-old-to-walk-the-planet.  Nightmare, I say.  As infants they always sleep/nurse the whole time anyway, but I still always feel guilty not purchasing the infant seat.

That mother was R.U.D.E.  I apologize to everyone I pass as I board the plane with my brood as I am fully aware they will probably piss someone off at some point.

Rebecca, that mama sounds like a horrorshow.  And yet ...

A few months back, my grandmother fell suddenly ill.  You know the call, right?  <i>Come now to say good-bye.</i>  My husband was away.  I snagged the last seat out on the next flight, and had little choice but to carry my 21-month old child on as a lap baby.  (Two seats would've meant arriving nearly 8 hours later.  We were living in a small town, and I was flying to a small town.)  I got lucky - someone traded me for a window seat and my fellow passengers and the flight crew were incredibly kind.

So while I understand the impulse to criticize, not all flights are for pleasure and not every trip allows the luxury of careful pre-planning.  While it doesn't seem like the passenger in question was dealing with personal tragedy, it isn't impossible.

Yes, parents should do their very best for their children, but there are times when we're all at our limits, and a little kindness goes a very long way.