Baby Squared - All Comments

re: Positive Reinforcement

April — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:15:54 GMT

I definitely think the charts work wonderfully with older kids, not as sure how they work with toddlers. Anything you try is worth a shot right? Best of luck with it! :)

re: Positive Reinforcement

Lena — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:02:07 GMT

I *almost* went out and bought those, but I think I'll wait a few months until my girls are closer to Elsa and Clio's age (plus, they were kinda expensive). So, keep us posted!

re: Positive Reinforcement

Rachel — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:33:15 GMT

We generally try to use positive reinforcement, but it's so easy to slip into nagging and punishment instead. We successfully used a sticker chart with Evie when she was almost 3, but it was for a particular purpose (no screaming, crying, whining, hitting Mommy's hand, etc, when having her hair washed - it was a big issue for us). If she finished a row on the sticker chart, we took her to the bakery and bought a cookie. When she finished the whole chart (6 rows), we went to the book store and bought a new book. It worked! I was worried that we would have to keep using the chart or she would slip back into the undesirable behavior, but she didn't! After 1 chart, she was doing great with hair washing and we didn't need to start a new chart.

I've seen those responsibility charts and always wondered how they worked for young kids since they have so many different categories. I like the concept, though, and would be interested to hear how it goes!

re: Positive Reinforcement

Alli — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:39:54 GMT

Ah, the wonderful world of discipline.

In an effort not to add too much the multitude of "never-fail" discipline techniques that all parents (and teachers of young children) are bombarded with, my general rule of thumb is that different strategies work for different children.

That being said, positive reinforcement is never a bad idea. I will always throw in an enthusiastic "potty high five" after a successful potty event (hell, I've even been known to break into a "pooping on the potty" song on occasion).

My one reservation about the responsibility chart (and maybe also an explanation as to why bad language is included but potty is not) is that it can be hard for some young children to understand and be motivated by delayed gratification. This type of "working up to a reward" can be more useful for slightly older children.

With little ones I have generally found immediate natural consequences to be more effective, i.e. if you don't poop in the potty then it's your job to clean yourself up after an accident. I, of course, will supervise the cleaning up and provide quality control when needed, but the brunt of the work is done by the child. For some children, it only takes a few accidents for them to learn that it's better to poop in the potty, for others it can take longer.

I'll be curious to know how Elsa and Clio respond to the responsibility chart, and I commend your willingness to try different techniques!

re: Positive Reinforcement

Annie — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 00:13:24 GMT

Challenge extended: Poop Haiku! (Poop 17 times doesn't count!)

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

6512 and growing — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:51:23 GMT

My first child is a fairly even-keel, predictable little dude. If he's upset he needs food, sleep or a big space to make some big motor movements in. But little sister...ohmygoodness, this one can hold her 2-year old "I've fallen and I can't get up" tantrum through the best distractions, except perhaps pirate booty. It's thrown me for a loop for sure and I just keep shaking my head thinking "they're all so different..." And pass the chocolate.

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

April — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:58:35 GMT

My toddlers are the same way. Very dramatic at times.

This is why I won't buy super expensive costumes for my kids at this age. I know there is a big chance they won't wear it at the last minute so I refuse to drop over 30$ for a costume and with two toddlers it adds up fast! I saw all these toddlers with super fancy expensive costumes and I just can't do it right now. When they are older sure I will, but not now. We made a poor looking Max costume from Where the Wild things are out of felt and a gray sweatsuit. I felt so embarassed at Boo at the Zoo because my kids had the cheapest looking costume there! :(

Sorry Halloween was not picture perfect. With two toddlers nothing ever is!

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

nutterbutter — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:36:42 GMT

I hate to say it... but when we go through this...it usually turns out that the hellion was ill.

We had a costume malfunction too. Moments before mummy could take a photo of the the Prince Daddy with Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty...Cinderella tore off her tiara, the gloves, the dress , had a melt down and spent the evening in her tights and sparkly shoes. I think she was unhappy that I asked her to take her green cardigan off for a minute.....She was still a bit frail after the bout with the swine flu...and they still are 4 days later. SIGH.

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Kathleen — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:26:32 GMT

To add to book recommendations, The Highly Sensitive Child describes Charlie to a tee. Clio reminds me quite a bit of Charlie, so I wonder if you'd find it helpful, too. Got enough to read now, Jane?!

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

EG — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:08:12 GMT

She'll be back. Eventually. We went through a 6-week period with Little Man this fall that was so hard that I was truly mourning the loss of the boy I used to have so much fun with. Truly, I was worried and sad and didn't know what to do.

Then for the past week, he's been back. He's just a delight (I mean, he's still 2, but it's not horrible all the time). Thank God.

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Jules — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:14:49 GMT

You know, I read somewhere that toddlers have meltdowns EVERY 15 MINUTES. So, if you put Clio's meltdowns into perspective, maybe they're not so bad? I definitely think some of the meltdown is related to giving up her nap, though, if only because Harper is going through the exact same thing--giving up nap, potty-training, and simultaneously losing her cool a lot more, including some of the angry stuff, like throwing things around. I have no answers...I'm just commiserating. Tonight, as she was eating dinner sitting on Dad's lap (the only place she would eat it following a meltdown), he made this roller coaster movement with his hand behind her head, then the "crazy twirly finger" sign. Maybe they should be renamed "The Manic Depressive Threes."

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Kelley — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:38:09 GMT

Do you think that Clio needs naps? The fact that she fell asleep after freaking out about the leotard... It just seems like a lot of the behavior may be from overstimulation. If not nap time, a lot of kids will lay down for a rest. I didn't see a celebration of Elsa's nap, so I'm guessing she still takes one? That could account for her being able to go with the flow?

Just a thought, good luck!

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

leslie — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:32:13 GMT

never forget when i mentioned to a mom w/older kiddos that my son was about to turn three and how glad i was that the 'terr. twos' were coming to an end. she just looked at me with a sad (and tired) smile and said something like 'you aint seen nothing yet.' and dammit, was she ever right. the good news is that kieran is nearly 4 now and almost always (except in the hour or two before bed) pretty cool to be around. and i feel a little guilty that i laughed sooooo hard at your pain! sorry.

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Molly — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:04:56 GMT

I had a similar problem with my almost 3 year old son when he first gave up his nap. I finally realized that he was just tired all the time. After 10 long days of trying to get his nap back on track it finally worked. Now he naps almost 2 hours a day and is back to the sweet little boy that I knew was hiding underneath all those tantrums.

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Patty — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:17:50 GMT

A friend of mine called it the "Tumultuous Threes", and that's indeed what it has been at our house. Clingyness, inexplicable tantrums, hitting, throwing, you name it. Plus, the super-sensitive contrition that comes after any behavioral correction, and the ability to just get over everything in an instant... sometimes.

It definitely gets worse around here during a growth spurt.

Good luck! Aren't kids incredible?

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Marie Eve — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:02:23 GMT

Damn, I hate missing references (good catch Pinkie!). I went back and tried to find the Pretty Woman line but couldn't, and then I realized back when Pretty Woman got out I only watched it in dubbed French (there was no way to get our hands on an OV, and I didn't really speak English well enough anyway), so it figures I didn't get it, I guess (but I'm still made at myself).

I do get the Sound of Music one, though. Does that count?

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Roper — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:47:10 GMT

Oh, man, I love "The f*ck you threes." The phrase, I mean; not the stage. Oy. (You mean it doesn't get better yet??)

Pinkie: I'm so psyched that you got the Pretty Woman reference!

Rachel: I'm going to try to get my hands on a copy of 'Raising your Spirited Child' ASAP.

Thanks everyone, as always, for your sympathy! Best wishes a back at you as you navigate your own crazy 2 and 3yr old freakouts.

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Marie Eve — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:46:54 GMT

Oh, does this post and the comments make me feel a little better. We're having a rough phase with LP as well, and he's been totally Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde lately. Refusing to put on his costume on Friday for daycare, then being way-too-excited (like, coke binge excited) about putting it on on Saturday...

In our case, it's been triggered by a fire drill at daycare last month, which completely traumatized him (even though all other kids were fine), and launched a major overemotional, insecure, separation and abandonment fear bout in him. He's doing better, but we're still not where we used to be. In his case, like Clio I think (I may totally be wrong), the behavior is related to not being able to feel completely secure more than to the normal "terrible two" acting out... LP was pretty much born like that, and I was that child, too. That's tough. The line is thin, between empathizing and trying to make him feel more secure and ending up catering to his anxiety and making it worse. The "Spirited Child" and "Highly Sensitive Child" books have somewhat helped us, as well as one titled "Freeing your child from anxiety"...

And in spite of the more difficult topic addressed, that post was SO FUNNY: the gentle making fun of the sailor bags, the Freddy Mercury reference, the Boston accent; everything was there!

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Stella — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:00:50 GMT

Yeah, I was about to comment on developmental leaps, just like Tracy. A lot of parents have said that these mini-meltdown periods happened before a big "explosion" of development ;)

It could also be about control issues. Trying to navigate your way through life as a tiny toddler and deal with these huge feelings that don't make sense to you (or your parents) can be trying.

It sounds like Clio is more sensitive to changes in her environment or the feeling of not being in control and wanting to be. Now that she's getting older, she's probably got a greater desire to do what SHE wants to do, but she's still so young, she may be having trouble figuring what it IS she wants to do, hahah. There have been some studies on "highly sensitive" children that might be helpful.

I think, though, that her freakouts are a good sign. It means that she's impatient and irritated because this is not something she's used to. You and Alastair have clearly done a good job of meeting her needs and helping her figure out what she wants, so these emotions are even more frustrating for her. "What the hell?! WHY CAN'T ANYONE TELL ME WHAT I WANT ANYMORE?! WHY DOESN'T ANYONE KNOW? Why don't I??" is probably a part of her meltdowns.

Either way, I hope you and Alastair can figure out a way to keep helping Clio and keep your sanity. As well as being there for Elsa, geez! Twins are not double the trouble... it seems more like quadruple the worries. Whew! Keep us posted, Jane. I'm sending hugs your way!!

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Pinkie Bling — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:43:46 GMT

Sorry to hear she's having a rough time lately. I hope it gets better soon! Great entry, and I loved the "Pretty Woman" line. :)

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Tracy Hahn-Burkett — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:53:35 GMT

Any or all of the above comments could be true. Here's another possibility: when my kids were this age, I sometimes found that this type of behavior immediately preceded a big developmental leap--a vocabulary explosion, for example, or a major gross or fine motor accomplishment. There's no way to know for sure, but once I figured this out, I clung to the theory like a life preserver to get me through the behavior!

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Veronica — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:42:21 GMT

I so sympathize with your situation. My normally sweet, happy, smart and funny 2 year old has now become the family time bomb. We have no idea when she will go off, or what ridiculous incident will cause her to go off, but she is normally having anywhere from 6-10 meltdowns per day. They sometimes last 2 minutes and sometimes last 20-30 minutes.

Some examples: On our way to a play date yesterday I was brushing her hair and said "Ok, stand still for a minute so I can put your hair in a ponytail." Her response: "NO!!, DON'T WANT A PONYTAIL, DON'T WANT IT, DON'T WANT IT!!" At which point she started to scream and sob hysterically for the next 10 minutes until we got in the car and headed to our play date. Once we arrived at our friend's house, she was happy as a clam as if the previous 20 minutes had never happened.

Later in the day I changed her diaper and as I was pulling up her jeans I said: "I'll just zip these up and button them and then I'm done." At which point she said: NO!!!, NO BUTTON THEM!!, NO BUTTON THEM!!, I DON'T WANT TO!!, I DON'T WANT TO!!!" and then proceeded to scream and cry for 5 minutes until she was distracted by a book at which point she sat down to read and started to happily talk and sing to herself as if the prior outburst had not happened.

There are countless incidents like these throughout the day.

It's truly insane behavior and like you I wish so desperately I could get into her little head and understand what the heck is going on. But at this point my approach has been a combination of ignoring and supporting, i.e. I mostly ignore the behavior while calmly saying to her a couple of times: "What's the matter? Do you want to tell Mama what's wrong so I can help you?" This usually doesn't work, but I want to simultaneously show her that she's not going to work me into a frenzy with each meltdown while also letting her know that I'm here to help her and support her if there is actually something wrong that I can fix.

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Jessica — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:40:39 GMT

Yup, I think the Threes have arrived at your house, Clio-style!

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

Melissa — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:21:55 GMT

Michael goes through moods like this too. Right now a lot of them center around "I CAN DO IT!" and then "I need HELP!" Who knows what it is. Is she still boycotting naps? She might be overtired or just overstimulated. Her threshhold for handling new activities is clearly higher than Elsa's. Or is that lower? Wait...

I think it's just the age. All the things I've heard about toddlers going through cyclical tantrum stages seems to be true.

re: A Not So Happy Halloween

MidLifeMama — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:21:44 GMT

It is probably a combination of things, from just being THAT age, to needing a certain amount of control over a life that is controlled for the most part by BIG PEOPLE and like someone else suggested, she may be coming down with something. Or the teething thing. Cooper would get very unpredictable and sensitive when sprouting a tooth. But it is sooooo hard in the moment, when you have just been smacked in the face, to respond in a rational manner, isn't it?