Baby Squared

I haven't read Karp's books, though I think I saw a video of him doing his shushing thing once, which sorta helped when my now 2-year-old was a screaming infant.

We have always spoken to him like he's a normal human being, though.  None of this toddler-ese nonsense.  It helps that my kid is an early talker, and can speak clearly and in full grammatical sentences when he chooses to.  We've made it clear that when he yells and screams, we can't understand him so he doesn't get what he wants.  We remind him of this and he takes a deep breath, calms down, and then talks to us like a real person.

Occasionally, when he really gets going, I'll mirror back some of his tone, honestly just to let him see how annoying it is and how it's *not* normal conversation.  It occasionally even works. :)  Usually, though, I put myself right into his view -- either getting down to his level or picking him up so that we're face to face -- and talk to him softly, so that he has to quiet down to hear what I'm saying.  And sometimes, he's even interested.

When all that fails, I just scoop him up under my arm and drag him, kicking and screaming, where I want him to go. :)

I am in the middle of reading this, and I have the exact same feelings about it. Also, what about when you have NO IDEA what the tantrum is about?  I like his ideas, but I haven't been able to make any of them work.

We're just getting into this with The Boy, who's 15 months. Giving him words to express his anger, frustration, etc helps, e.g. "I KNOW waiting for dinner is hard, but let's sing the ABCs to make it go faster!" BUT, I don't really agree with talking to them in Toddler-ese. I had an aha! moment when my mom was down here. She talked to him EXACTLY as if he were an adult -- the smartest adult in the room, no less -- and you know what? He behaved better for her than anyone else. Expectations go a long way, I think.

I find the todder-ese thing weird as well.  Isn't it much more helpful to do as Hilary suggested, give them appropriate languge to describe how they are feeling?  Part of the toddler tantrums are about not having the language to express themselves properly, so they become frustrated.  Also, I've always believed (and been taught in my training,)that children respond better to adults who are calm when they are angry, because they have a sense that the parent/carer is in control of the situation, when they are still trying to get to grips with their emotions, and test boundaries and so on.  Having an adult who responds like a kid, even if what you are saying is authoritive, (like, play nicely or I'll take away the ball,)... I don't know, I think it would confuse kids.  I could be wrong, but that's my experience.

First of all, we love Drumlin. We are there at least one day a week, usually on weekends. Cooper has been demanding to see cows all morning today. Secondly, while I have not read any of these books, I have found that sometimes when Cooper gets stuck in toddler-mind it does seem to get his attention when I talk like him and breaks him out of the endless loop of whatever he is stuck on - Cows, FARM, SHEEEEEP....thirdly, have your girls discovered the board in the chicken house that tells you how people imitate a rooster in various countries? HILARIOUS. The best is when Cooper imitates them back.

Happiest Baby on the Block was our bible, so I was all excited to read Happiest Toddler on the Block.  But you're so right -- Toddler-ese is kind of ridiculous.  It's silly and embarrassing.  Add to that the fact that my husband and MIL are both English teachers and find it appalling from a language development standpoint.  I like Hillary's point about giving them the correct language they need to describe their feelings, and Alice is so right that it's better to remain calm and not match the child's volume/intensity (I'm still working on mastering that one).  Karp really tapped into something legitimate with his baby book that made all the goofiness and exclamation points and celebrity endorsements beside the point, but the toddler one never rises above seeming like a trendy gimmick.  

I have 26 month old twins and I read the book as well.  Rent the video of this guy demonstrating toddler-ese and it looks even more ridiculous ;-)  I think some concepts make sense. If you pay a lot of attention to people that have a lot of success with toddlers you'll soon realize that they have an upbeat voice and they repeat themselves a lot.  I took that away from the book.  I don't apply real toddler-ese but I think that saying stuff with enthusiasm and repeating it a lot (which drives my husband crazy) works wonders at this age.  

Where I disagree is when a toddler goes into that 'mode', and every mother knows that 'mode', walking away and letting them have their moment is the only thing that works for us.

You don't have to sound stupid or talk down to your kid to use this technique.

I once saw my friend magically defuse his 3yo's tantrum this way:

We were leaving the beach and Aaron was about to lose it. His dad picked him up and said in a normal tone of voice "You want to stay. You want to stay and play. You want to stay and play all day." Then he repeated it in the 3rd person ("Aaron wants to stay . . . )

I think vocalizing their feelings in words they can fully understand is really the point of this technique, not trying to explain 'why' they have to do something they don't want to.

I skimmed this book a few months ago after a friend lent it to me and found it somewhat helpful. I agree that "toddlerese" is a little silly but I also have had some success with it with my not-very-verbal 23-month-old. Karp's premise that toddler sort of lose their language when they are upset strikes me as having some validity. I also like the idea that -everyone- wants to feel heard when they are upset. So, when I tell my son that I know he is "mad, mad, mad" or that he "wants, wants, wants the truck" or whatever, it often has the effect of immediately calming him down for a few seconds, if only for him to take the time to look at me like I'm crazy, like Clio did. Of course, it doesn't make him any happier about the subsequent denial that I am about to issue. But I know when I get upset I find that having my emotion heard and validated is often just as important as having the "wrong" redressed. You know what I mean?

So, I guess my take-home is that I think the book did help me a bit. Like all parenting books (and advice in general) you have to take some of it with a grain of salt.

Also, my husband and I have had some fun with Karp's ridiculously titled "playing the boob" strategy. We find that our son -loves- it if we pretend that he is powerful, strong, knocked us over, etc. And it makes sense: he's so little and weak compared to us, it must get old being powerless.

So, I think there is something to some of Karp's positive parenting techniques too.

That's just my two cents, since you asked. I've never posted before but I really enjoy your blog!

I didn't find the toddler book as helpful as the infant book, but I do use the mirroring of emotion all the time to diffuse tantrums.  When my son wants something he can't have (staying at the park, a cookie before dinner, to stay up way too late) I use normal grown up language to let him know I understand, I hear him, I feel his pain...but he still can't have whatever it is he wants.  Just spending a minute or two commisterating with him - "You love the park.  You were having a great time.  You want to stay.  You want to play at the part all day" generates these sniffly litte "yeah" noises and head nods that eventually morph into a relaxation of all that toddler angst into something resembling acceptance of my verdict.  Usually.

I picked that one up, too, and read parts of it. Like you, I'm not sure I can bring myself to do the toddler-ese thing.  But, then, we're going through a very... ahem... TODDLER phase right now. So maybe I should give it a shot.

I was wondering if anyone was actually talking like that to their kids?! I don't like it when people don't speak normally with their children, it just seems like they're asking for trouble later. I just want to tell them: you do realize that you're the only example they have to learn to talk, right? Anyway, I've never spoken toddler-ese, but I do try the general idea of the book when dealing with a tantrum: using short, assertive, to the point language that puts the emphasis on him and avoids abstract explanations as to why we can't do this and that right now. I must say I have moderate success.

I remember the part of this book I liked best was the theory that each person replicates human evolution since the beginning of time but at an increasingly faster pace (or something along those lines)... The infant book was more helpful for our family, as well.

I read this book cover to cover and although a lot of it was a bit much... I agree with you on the massages etc, I tried the toddler-ese right away with my little screaming tantrum throwing cave child (2 year old). I don't do it in the idiotic way he suggests "ball, ball, ball. you want the ball now now now" I tend to talk in normal tone of voice but get on his level and say "You're hungry,  you want to eat right now. T wants to eat right now" and he'll often stop whatever he's doing (screaming, crying, whining) and look at me and say "yes". It diffuses the situation because it makes him realize that I do hear and understand him but that he has to be patient. I've also tried the patience teaching that Karp suggests and it is working slowly but surely.

I also read the infant book cover to cover and found that although the 5 S's stopped my colicky screaming kid from screaming Karp never explains how to put said child down without them resuming the screaming. I shusshed, I swaddled, I bounced I did everything but the second that kid stopped moving he started screaming EVERY TIME!!

I've never tried this on our two girls at one time, but it has worked for me when one is throwing a tantrum. It may not have worked the way you wanted because you were in the car. I think it works best if you are at rest, look her in the eye, at eye level, with direct physical contact and immediate redirection. The redirection once the tantrum is broken is key. If there is no redirection, it seems likely that she will fall back into the same negative mood.

I agree with rrr's comment.  I've used a modified toddler-ease with my daughter (who will be 3 next week), and it worked very well with her.  Even when I didn't  know for sure what she was upset about, saying "You're mad! You're so mad! I see that you feel so mad!" and so on helped her calm down enough that I could figure out what set her off.  I found the technique very helpful.

I also loved Happiest Baby.  As a matter of fact, shushing still works today to calm my daughter down when she's really upset.  She even does it to her friends when they cry!  

Seems to me that the real take-away here is that the kid wants to be validated and understood. I get that. Our just turned 2 year old daughter will repeat herself over and over and over in an increasingly shrieky voice (that's another issue) until you acknowledge what she's saying, and I don't blame her. She wants everyone to know what she's thinking and feeling, and so we do try to make sure she knows she's heard and understood, even though she can't always get what she wants. Like most others, I disagree with the whole toddlerese thing - they understand us, and the more we talk to them like they're real people instead of little cave people, the faster they'll get with the program. At least, that's what I tell myself.

I haven't used the toddler book yet, as our little guy isn't quite there. But like others, love Happiest Baby on the Block!

I recently read an article in a parenting magazine (I think it was Parents?) where they followed a mom trying this for a week. Not sure if you'd be able to find it, but I think it was in the past few months. I thought it was really interesting. She did a lot of what it sounds like you're doing... adapted it to her style. In the end she did think it helped her toddler put his feelings into words and calm him down.

Anyway, not sure if it will help, but thought I'd throw it out there!

Hmm...haven't read the book but this is essentailly the same technique we were taught on the suicide prevention hotline.  Mirror back what the person said to you exactly, tone and all, so that they know they are heard.  It felt fake, but it seemed to work.  Sometines I don't even think people realized we were parroting them, at least not when they were really upset.  There is a larger gap in language styles with toddlers though.

I've skimmed it.  Most of the time, I still have no idea what the tantrum is about, so toddler-ese is not going to work.  The only other thing I remember from the book is something about stage whispering secrets to stuffed animals to reinforce good behavior, and I can't really picture myself talking to a sock monkey about eating vegetables with a straight face.  

I haven't read the book, but I'm pretty sure seeing Karp do this in person tops reading the book or seeing the video alone. I went to his Happy Toddler session at the National Association for the Education of Young Children annual conference. Boy was it awkward for the auditorium full of adults to watch him demonstrate this technique with not a child in sight!

As for the theory itself, I agree with the general consensus here - that there is validity to Karp's idea that emotions can "overrule" the rational/linguistic mind and that mirroring emotion and repeating the basic premise is valuable in many situations. I use the modified technique all the time in my toddler classroom with much success. In addition, I always try to give them a name for their feelings. It helps toddlers to become aware of and accept their emotions. For example, "You sound frusterated! Say, 'help me'" or "I see you REALLY want a turn with that toy. Say, 'Can I have a turn when you're done?'" Most of the time, giving them an effective way to solve their problem reminds them that it's okay feel frusterated or to want something but that their rational mind can get the job done better than their emotional mind.

This being said, the technique doesn't seem to work when the problem cannot be solved or when their rational mind is already compromised (if they are hungry or overtired). For example, it doesn't help to mirror their sadness when being seperated from a parent, and there is no reasoning with an overtired toddler.

Lots of comments on this post. From working with toddlers in a daycare and being raised in a daycare and now raising twin toddlers myself I say that toddler talk is the way to go. I see parents talk to their kids like adults and well it doesn't work because toddlers are uncapable of being rational. Simple as that. Kids cannot learn empathy or rationalization until 3 at least.

That being said you have to start somewhat teaching them rationalization and empathy skills but you have to do it in a toddler way. Especially when they are mad, they need to understand and be related to in a simple toddler way. I am sure everyone thinks I am am annoying, but I speak in the upbeat singsongy way, often actually singing songs on the spot and it works. You have to mirror their emotions back to them.

"Harrison, brother had that ball first. So he is going to play with it now. I am sorry you want it too. Are you mad? WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL you are going in the ball pit!!!!!!!" To which I pick him up and toss him in the ballpit and tickle him to death.  Say this in a sympathetic and upbeat tone.

You can't talk to children like adults. You have to think like a kid and tap into that kid world to really be loved by kids. I have NEVER met a kid that didn't like me and it is because I get on their level physically and mentally. I play with them, I relate to them, and I act as goofy as I want and don't care what anyone else thinks. Make up songs, say silly things like "Oh Harrison are you peeyou stinkbutt?!!!!"  Kids love that crap.

Not to say mine don't just tantrum like everyone elses do too, but.........I still think this approach is best. Children are not miniature adults, we need to realize that. I haven't read Happiest Toddler on the Block but I think it has merit.

Another important way to prevent tantrums is never let them happen in the first place. Have meals ready on time, have nap on time, buy two of every toy that you can, anticipate their needs. I know many parents think they don't have to cater their lives to their kids, but I say different. You have to if you don't want a miserable life. Why struggle to make the child cater to you? It is a battle neither of you will win! Best to be the better person and just give in and accept until they are somewhat grown themselves my life belongs to them.  

I think some kids need/respond to this kind of thing more than others.  You know what random tidbit from that book really works for my almost-two-year-old?  Whispering when I need her to listen.  For some reason it breaks her out of her defiant mode.  I can tell her/ask her to do something and get a round of "NOOOOO!"s but if I then kneel down and look at her eyes and stage whisper "look at me, B.  It's time to (blah blah blah), do you understand?"  She whispers, "Yes, mommy" and does it.  Not all the time but, seriously, probably 80% of the time.  Who knew?  

I loved "Happiest Baby" and feel equally strange doing the "Happiest Toddler" stuff, although it would be helpful these days trying to placate Kid #1 while brand-new Kid #2 is nursing (and #1 wants to be--where else--lying down on my chest).  One thing we've used that worked in terms of "mirroring" is whenever Harper falls down or hurts herself--we ask her/tell her what happened to get her to move on.  "What happened?  You were hanging on the railing and you let go?  And you bumped your head?" (etc.)  It seems to work really well in this case.  

I haven't read the Karp books. Nor have I read through these comments. But one thing I've learned from working in child care and taking numerous childcare classes is that reflecting their wants IS really important.

And I think the way you're doing it is right. I think that saying "Ball! Ball! Ball!" is a little silly. It may be helpful only in that it grabs their attention by being short words said with a lot of emotion.

However, simply saying, "I know you want the ball. I know it makes you mad that (child's name) is playing with it right now."

Then you bring it into her world. Say she was grabbing the ball from her sister. That's when you say, "It makes you mad when (child's name) takes your ball away from you. It makes her feel the same way."

Then, you know, continue your mommy-thing and tell her that she'll have to wait until the other child is done with it. And in the meantime, wouldn't she like to play with this toy..?

Who knows, it could actually work! =)